Terry Brands | Episode 5

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

Narrator

It's time for Stories from the Resilite, tales of triumph and tradition. Step onto the mat and into the moments that shaped wrestling history. It all comes to life on Stories from the Resilite. Here's your host, award winning wrestling broadcaster, Shane sparks.

Shane Sparks

And welcome to Stories from the Resilite. This is episode number five today, a two time world champion, an Olympic bronze medalist, three time Big Ten champion, three time national finalist, longtime coach at University of Iowa, by the way, won two individual national titles as well. Terry brands, Terry, first and foremost, happy birthday. You and your brother Tom, turned 58 on April 9. What did you do to celebrate 58 What a run

Terry Brands

we were getting ready for the open so it was a great birthday. It was a great birthday.

Shane Sparks

Terry. Since 2007 16 times, the University of Iowa has taken a team trophy back to Iowa City from the national tournaments four times since then, a championship trophy. What is underestimated in terms of how difficult it is to sustain that level of success that's incredible,

Terry Brands

underestimated. I don't think anything is underestimated here. I think that we we are fortunate of our past, but we earned it, and we continue to earn it every day that we're sitting in the chairs, and that will never end, until they until they replace the leadership of this program. And we, you know, there's nothing that's underestimated. There's nothing that that no no stone is Unturned, and we build and work every single day to make this place better. This program is not is not my program, or Tom's program or our program as a coaching staff, this program belongs to the state of Iowa, and we just are stewards of it at this particular time in history, and that's how we treat it every day.

Shane Sparks

To have that level of success. Maybe I should ask it this way, what's under appreciated? You look around the country, some great coaches that have never won one championship, you guys are consistent. It's year in year out. The standard is high. It's not that easy.

Terry Brands

Well, it's, it's, I mean, the standard is to win here. And I mean, we, it's not lost on us. And I know that there are disgruntled people out there, and there are people that that this place is a lightning rod. And I remember a a thing that was on the Web maybe a year or two ago with Chael Sonnen. And he was talking about, he was like, I don't know why. You know, everybody loves to hate Iowa wrestling. It's like that poster from from 86 from the 1986 team. And it's true. And, you know, I mean, it goes back to Gable winning all those titles and and people just not wanting to come to that standard and not wanting to get on board with it, and being beat up by Iowa over throughout all those years, year in, year out, and and Chael Sonnen and he really, he made me really think about that. And in you know that that could be a reason why there isn't a lot of fans outside of the outside of Iowa, and people, it doesn't matter. And maybe the perception is different than the reality. But the perception is so hot because it is a click button topic, you know, FloWrestling does get clicks when they talk about, you know, Iowa not being great, anybody does? I mean, all those guys, that's, that's what they do. They use this as a lightning rod. And first of all, it's appreciated that they do that. And second of all, I would say that, you know, like this year was, was exceptionally, I guess you could say where, where we were, you know, under the gun. And you know, I had friends that I haven't heard from, you know, for 10, 15 years from high school, that would call me and go, Hey, do you don't get on the social media? Do you? And I go, No, I'm never on that. And they go, Well, don't start. And then, you know, I had, like, a guy from Sheldon call me and go, Hey, you're not in social media. Are you? And I go, No. And he goes, Don't get on. Don't get on. So I knew, you know, I knew it was really bad this year. And so to answer your question, I'll answer it that way. We know the standard. We know that the only thing and the only thing that we're looking. To do is to win and get our hand raised the right way. And that will never change. It never has changed, and it never will change.

Shane Sparks

This past season, fair to say, it had its ups and downs, although I would say this, you got to peel the onion back. I mean, you wrestled Ohio State great program a couple of times. Wrestled Ohio State great program a couple of times. You wrestled some really good competition. I will say this, nobody wrestles a schedule like Iowa. Nobody. That's a fact. With that being said, as you mentioned, you heard some whispers. People getting a little bit uneasy. But when it came to showing up, when it mattered most, you guys showed up, took another trophy back to Iowa City. What about this particular season? Did you learn about yourself and what are you most proud of? And ultimately, that final effort in at the national tournament,

Terry Brands

I think the thing, the whole thing, was steady through all of it. You know, there's little tweaks as the season goes along, and when things aren't going well, you look under, like I said earlier, you look under every stone, and you tweak, and you find ways to make it happen. And you said, you know, peel back the whatever, the layers. And so that's what you're doing. And the one thing that I would say about this staff, over the last X number of years, for as long as we've been together, is we don't, we don't stop trying to get our hand raised the right way. And I say, get in our hand, raise the right way. In that purity and that peace of of, you know, training and recovery and fuel and hydration and rest, and you know, in doing all of those things, along with your academics, along with your social life, along with everything else that you're doing as you live and as we spin around this planet where you're doing all of those things in and you're doing them when you're supposed to be doing them, and the priority is, is that I'm in line with what I need to be doing at that particular time, during the day, during the week, during the month, during the year, and to communicate that. And you know how the season started, we had we had some bumps in the road. We had some some lineup issues, we had some deceit. We had some things that happened that just weren't on the up and up. And it wasn't going to work. It wasn't going to work. And it took us until, and I, you know, if I could put my finger on it took us till, like, looking back at my notes, it took us till February 3 to get a hold of this team. Finally. And, you know, grab them and be like, okay, we can win these guys, you guys sitting right here in front of us, you can win, and we can win together. And it was, it was that day where you start to see guys, where, when you're talking to them, they start to believe. And that's not, that's not common to have to, you know, Coach and go through and build a program and a team during that season, to have to wait until February 3 for that message to become clear, that's tough. It's hard to win under those circumstances. So you know, you know, we're starting on this year. We started on the 22nd of March for next year, you know. And think about that, we started out on that day at the national tournament last year, and we didn't get them, quote, unquote, until the end of January, the first part of February. And I don't mean get them like, where we didn't know who we had, where we didn't capture them. And that imagination that sometimes has to happen, that work ethic, that work ethic lining up with that belief, your head, heart connection, as we call it, spiritual, mental, physical, emotional, but spiritual, mental and emotional first, then the physical, then the physical, and to get them to understand that was just a longer process this year. Did you take any time to enjoy it the season? I enjoy it every single day. I take time right now to enjoy it, and I love what I do. I'm very fortunate. It's not lost on me. People go, Oh, I'm sorry to bother you're busy, man, I'm not busy. I'm just I do what I got to do when I got to do it. And you know, that's what that's what jobs require. They require you to do the best of your ability every single time that you're at the task. And so I enjoy it every single day. The time that I take is the evaluation, and then the time that I take is being in the workout room. The time that I take is having my own rest when I'm supposed to rest, having my own recovery when I'm supposed to recovery, staying hydrated, staying fueled, head, heart connection, you know, it narrow. Networks, you know, in the way that you think, and the boom that instant and being able to talk and have that, that self talk, be positive, and it's no different for me than it is for them. The difference as a coach is you're dealing with, you know, 30 guys on a student athlete roster, and then five to seven guys on a club roster, and that's the difference.

Shane Sparks

Stories from the Resilites this podcast, Terry, it's just like a wrestling match. I mean, I can't show you the same look every time I got to mix it up, hand fight, level change, stutter step, fake, get to my offense and finish. So I'm all over the place. So Stories from the Resilite, Slap of the Resilite I love to make that call when there's a pin in a wrestling match. When you look back at your career, what is your most memorable fall?

Terry Brands

I remember a lot that I didn't get my most memorable fall. Well, I suppose it would have to be the Iowa State match with Dan Knight. And I learned the word boom from a guy named Royce Alger, a really early age here. And I pulled that one out of my pocket.

Shane Sparks

You remember what year that was?

Terry Brands

I do not it was. It would have been 91 or 90 or 92

Shane Sparks

in Hillary or Carver.

Terry Brands

That was in Carver, and that was back when we wrestle him twice a year.

Shane Sparks

And I, as a wrestling fan, I love that. I mean as an athlete,

Terry Brands

what

Shane Sparks

did you enjoy that as an athlete? Getting to Russell, Iowa State, twice a year,

Terry Brands

I enjoyed everybody. I didn't care the arena Carver-Hawkeye was awesome because of our fans. And in the other places were awesome because they wanted my head on a stick. And either way, I had to make sure that I was ready to go at the high, high, highest level. And you know that's what kept me rested at night.

Shane Sparks

When you look at the early 90s, Terry with Iowa, Iowa State, Northern Iowa, so many of those teams had home grown Iowa talent. What made Iowa high school wrestling so great in the late 80s, early 90s,

Terry Brands

I think it's the same thing that makes it great. Now you have work ethic. You have people that want to be great. You have people looking up to the programs that are in their home state, and you have people wanting to emulate, and then, you know, beyond, go beyond that and attain goals that are bigger and greater than the generation before you. And so it's about winning, and that, you know, with a new rule, it's about winning five NCAA championships, one year at a time, of of course, and then moving on and going into the international scene and and breaking out there and winning World Olympic gold medals, as those years dictate and allow you to do that. And it's, it's, that's what it's about. It doesn't really matter where you're from. The things that that you know made made Iowa great as a state, are still in place. If you want me to break it down a little bit deeper, I could go that farming has been more automated lately. So, you know, maybe they got to get to, back to, you know, more of the, you know, splitting wood by hand mentality. But there's some, there's some great people here, great wrestlers here, that they want to win at the highest level. And this is a great place to be from if you're a wrestler, and if you're from somewhere else is a great place to move to if you want to become a wrestler, and a great one. And you know, it's, it's cycles. I remember a couple years ago, they were talking about, I won't give the name of the of the media guy, but he was like, what's gone wrong? I will finish such and such on the in the junior duels. And then I was like, All right, well, call me in freaking June after these next ones are over. And then they won them. You know, it's just, it cycles, it cycles, and that's how it is. And it doesn't really matter where you're from, you got to be ready to go, and that's maybe the difference that separates this program from everybody else. I'm not saying we're better, but we are different, and it is about getting ready for every single opponent. Doesn't matter where they're from, or where you're from. What matters is what's in front of you and what the next match is about. In the way that the, you know, psychologists do it, they go next match and then second to best peak and then the most peak. So like, if I'm if I'm 10 matches out of the national or 10 duels out of the Big Tens, and. The Nationals, yes, and let's say we're wrestling, oh, let's say we're wrestling Indiana. It's Indiana next, and then it's Big Tens, then it's nationals. That's a peak with my look in my eye on 2028, LA, and that's how the psychologists, that's how the good ones and the great athletes, that's how they think. They don't go beyond that Indiana match, but they're aware of it, and that's hard to teach.

Shane Sparks

It's really good stuff. Because I've I'd be curious get your you just expand on this. When you see a high school kid, and again, they're 17, 18 years old, but they come out and say, hey, I want to win four national titles. And I'm I didn't wrestle the vision one, but I've been around it enough. Now, if somebody asked me, Shane, you've been doing Big Ten for, you know, 1516, years, what have I learned the most? I have a very I have an easy answer. What I've learned the most is how difficult it is to win a match, how difficult it is to win a match, and what goes into winning a match, and the circumstances of that day. When you hear a kid say, wants to win four national titles, I get it, but there's part of me that thinks kind of what you alluded to. Let's just win a match first, and in the rest will take care of itself. How do you? How do you view that comment when a kid says, I want to win four national titles and I want to win Olympic and world titles, what do you what are your first thoughts?

Terry Brands

We love that, and we you know, and they're in their goals, you know, and their work ethic will line up with their goals. That's when you know. And there, there's, there's people out there that that have that, and so you look for that, and then you talk to them, and you Yeah, visualize winning the Olympics multiple time. Visualize being a multi world time world champion. Visualize winning. Now it's five NCAA championships, but then also visualize 6am 20 below Iowa Blizzard, getting up early enough to fuel and hydrate your body so that you don't take in that practice, and then going home resting, and then getting up and eating again and fueling, and then getting up and going to class, and then, you know, doing the things that are in place that get you ready for that next match. And so it's both. It's both, and that's what the great ones do. They take care of the things, like I said earlier, and when we were first talking, they take care of those things. And then when it's time to go, they pull their straps up and they give everything they have to that next match. It doesn't matter if it's in a tournament. It doesn't matter if it's a duel. It doesn't matter if it's a Friday duel with a Sunday duel after or a Friday duel with the following. Sunday is your next match. It doesn't matter if you get knocked off at the Big Tens. God forbid. You got to be ready to go the next one. You have to, you have to, and you have to be able to persevere and understand how that process works. The greatest wrestlers of all time have to deal with moving on from a loss

Shane Sparks

High School, Sheldon, Iowa, the old Orabs learn that on the the Big Ten documentary. How would you describe your high school career?

Terry Brands

Um, great place to be from. Our high school coach was, his name was, was Galen Nelson, awesome guy. Great coach, very compatible, because he we were never not in shape. And part of that was because of the way that me and Tom grew up, and the way that, you know, the guys that start us in wrestling would help us during the season too, like Randy Feekes and and Rich Morgan and those guys, the guy that bought my dad's body shot when my mom and dad got divorced, was instrumental in that. But Coach Nelson was awesome. Because, you know, Hall sprints, learning how to get off the bottom, you have to get off the bottom, learning how to ride. You have to know how to ride and pin and get near fall and being strong on your feet, knowing being aware of the clock, being aware of the matches, being able to control the things that you can control, and knowing when that you let your coach handle the corner, you know, and those were things that were that were instrumental in our practice room and in that program. And so then, you know, you you go from there, and then you come here. And it was very compatible. This was just that another, you know, level times, however many above and beyond that. But fifth grade, you know, when I knew, wheNILooked and figured out what the highest level of wrestling was. I knew in fifth grade that I wanted to be an Olympic champion. So combine that with the shell. Golden wrestling program in their philosophy, and then how does a fifth grader make sense of that and move forward? And you know you're on the playground and people are making fun of you because they find out that you want to be an Olympic champion, so you beat the living tar out of them, and then you go sit in front of the principal and won't, won't apologize, and I'm not going to apologize for that, and I'm still there today, and that's part of what I talked about earlier. You understand where I'm going with that. I'm not going to apologize for wanting to win. I'm not going to apologize for how I approach sport. I'm not going to apologize for winning. I'm not going to apologize for domination. And that goes back to fifth grade, the Sheldon wrestling club. That goes back to fifth, sixth. Now you're in junior high. We had a great coach who would whistle strap, you know, he would take that whistle strap and, you know, you'd be screwing around, and you'd get it right across your rear end. And he was a great coach. And it was compatible to go into the next to the high school room, and then you go from there, you go to Gable, and then from Gable, you go to gables club, and that's, that's my career, and it was just a, you know, God, put me in the right place, and I took advantage of

Terry Brands

it.

Shane Sparks

How many state titles Did you win? Terry

Terry Brands

two?

Shane Sparks

Who did you bEat to Win those titles?

Terry Brands

So my sophomore year, I beat a guy from anamoza named Jay Supple. And then my junior year I beat Brad Gazaway from Eagle Grove, which was Mark Reiland High School. And then my senior year, I freaking lost to Chad Zaputil from Centerville, and hated him, you know, as a competitor. And then, you know, I remember I went down. We chased him down to when I say, We me and my demons chased him down to the tri state, down in Fort Madison, but, but we became great friends, and we're still great friends to this day, as he was a great Hawkeye, and love the guy, love the guy. And he was one of those catalysts that you know, that that that kept you rested at night, it kept you rested at night and kept you hot in the practice room, you know, awesome guy, and I learned a lot from that experience. So thanks for bringing that up. Shane. I really appreciate you.

Shane Sparks

Well, Chad Zaputil, as you all know, Terry, I've told you this, he's my favorite all time wrestler, Chad, favorite all time wrestler,

Terry Brands

I thought,

Terry Brands

I thought I was

Shane Sparks

Chad Zaputil. I mean, Chad Zaputil was the guy that I remember, Terry, I've told you the story million times, 1992 Big Tens at Madison. My dad took me down there. I'm watching those, those that great Iowa team. Saw Dan Gable for the first time, saw Tom and Terry brands for the first time, Troy and Terry Steiner for the first time. Bart Chelesvig makes become a good friend. I was friends with the late Mark Reiland and Tom Ryan and John Oostendorp. Got to meet him at the d3 tournament this year. He came up and said some nice things, but Chad Zaputil, I mean, I remember him warming up at the in Madison, there at the field house. I was 16 years old, got my driver's license that week. It was a big week for me, and I remember watching Chad Zaputil warm up, and I was just dying. Terry just died for him to look at me one time. I mean, I got to be honest with you, on that particular day, it was three people, you know, Jesus number one, Chad Zaputil Number two, Dan Gable number three. It changed my life. But Chad Zaputil was the guy, and that

Terry Brands

is awesome. And that's what wrestling does for us.

Shane Sparks

Absolutely

Terry Brands

does for us.

Shane Sparks

And you bring up a really good point, Terry, I want to go back to when you were in fifth grade. And how does a fifth grader make sense of it? What? What happened in fifth grade that made you want to become an Olympic champ? Did you see something? Did you read something? How did that formulate in your mind?

Terry Brands

Well, those guys came over to my house, and it was, you know, those, those guys that I talked about earlier, and they were like, basically the way I remember, and I've said this so many times, but they were like, you're going to be too small to play basketball. Here's a cradle and a cross face, you know. And we'll see you next week, and from there, okay, wrestling, and it was a way to physically beat up each other in my mom would yell down and knock it off, and then we'd go, we're wrestling. And she'd go, okay, you know. So it was a way where, you know, we can hide that brawling like we fought about everything, and, and so, and you're from a single family like that, and, and so wrestling was just a natural way to blow off that dysfunction into, you know, halfway, stay centered. And you know that was, that was an awesome environment to be in. And then, you know, when you learn that, oh, wrestling. Okay, now let's look it up. What is wrestling? What is the highest level? How far can I go? Because I was all about I thought I was going to play in the NFL. I thought I was going to play in the Major League Baseball, you know, I thought I was going to be in the NHL. I don't ever even been on a skate, but I just wanted to be the best at everything that I did. And I wanted to, I wanted to be the best. And I wanted to play. I wanted to be a running back in the NFL. I wanted to be like Dorsett, like Robert Newhouse, like Franco Harris, you know, those guys in in wrestling, was just that next piece. I just learned about it a little later. And then when you learn about it, you want to be the best. And you find out, you learn about Dan Gable, and Gable literally was, you know, less than a decade off that gold medal at that point in time in history. So it was natural.

Shane Sparks

Your mindsets, you're 10 years old, you want to be the best is mindsets. Are you born with that? I mean, how did you get the mindset to think like that as a kid?

Terry Brands

I don't think you're born with it. I think that. I think we're all born similar, and then you have options and opportunities, and I'm going to get a lot of I know, but you get a lot of options, and you get opportunities to become a victim in your environment or to become a champion in the environment that you were raised in. So that's how I would answer that. And you know, for for me, if I was selling an idea as a counselor, which I'm not a counselor, but if somebody came and talked to me and had problems, I would sell this idea be a champion in the environment you're in. I don't care about anything else that's going wrong in your house, all the dysfunction and all that. What are you going to do to break the bent? What are you going to do to break the bent? And a bent would be like the dysfunction. If there's alcoholism in your family, what do you do to not be the next generation that spreads that you know those kind of things? How do you treat your wife? How do you treat your family? How do you raise your family, etc, etc, etc. And I want to be a champion in the environment that I am in period, and when I was raised in that environment, I was going to be a champion in that environment. And so I think it's the way that you think about things, the way that you know, how close you pay attention to people that are role models, like, what did Robert Newhouse or what did Roger Staubach have to do with my upbringing? Well, I don't know, but those are the guy, Terry Bradshaw, what did he have to do with my upbringing? What did Dan Gable have to do with my upbringing? What did my dad have to do with my upbringing? He was awesome in the places where he was the best, there was nobody better than him in the places where he was the best, but there was nobody worse than him in the places where he was the worst. And so you kind of stay on that path, and we're capable, at an early age to make those distinctions and choose

Shane Sparks

when you talk about your father at his worst, and we're all parents, and I've messed up a lot of times. I mean, I've been in it just is what it is. It's just not that easy. It's not that easy with your Am I correct, Terry, that your dad battled alcoholism? Is that accurate?

Terry Brands

That's accurate? Yes, he still battles alcoholism. The thing about alcoholism is you're always an alcoholic. He's a recovering alcoholic, and he had his 45th year on Valentine's Day of sobriety.

Shane Sparks

Oh, that's fantastic. That's fantastic.

Terry Brands

That's awesome. And if you saw him when, when he was at his worst, you would really think it's a miracle. I mean, God's got that's divine, right there. How old were you Terry, when he was going through some of those really difficult stretches? He got sober when we were 12, and so I was 1110, nine, eight, you know. And I don't know how detailed we got to get, but he would have my mom, you know, up against the the doggone wall, and writing, we had 29,000 something because he owned a business, and, and then this is gone. Where's that, you know, and, and I don't want to embarrass my dad, and I don't think he is, but, you know, it's, it's pretty documented how he was, and I think that he, you know, is, is very accountable to those actions. And, you know, I don't know if I've ever told the story of him laying in front of our room one night. He was drunk, and he was laying in front of our room. He was, you little, you. Know, sons of guns, you move. You're grounded for a week. And then whiskers, our dog, would jump off the bend. He'd be like that week. We're laying a bed like this, you know. And then the next morning, you wake up, you open the door, and he's passed out in the hallway, you know. So you step over him, hoping not to wake him up, you know. So, you know, it was, it was, it's not horrible. It was an environment that you had to persevere through in in the you want to know. The ironic thing, this is crazy. He taught me how to persevere through it. Is that nuts that he caused, that he didn't cause dysfunction in my life. He taught me how to persevere through whatever it was I was going through. And that's a really, that's a that's a conundrum. Think about that. So you know those are, those are just unique ways to think about stuff.

Shane Sparks

How did your parents divorce affect you?

Terry Brands

I was not, I say this, but I don't think I was that affected by it. I remember I missed a fourth grade. I didn't miss any school ever. I think the first time I ever missed a class or a day of school was in fourth grade, and me and Tom and my mom drove to Sioux City to see my dad in treatment. And so I, when I got back, I had to tell my fourth grade teacher, because I was, I did not like to miss school. And I was like, hey, you know, we had to go. And I think my mom and dad are getting divorced. And you know, we went to Sioux City, and my mom found out that he has a girlfriend, and you know, all this, all this stuff, but I wasn't embarrassed to tell her, and maybe that's a testament to her, you know, just a great teacher that was welcoming and had an open environment for her students. But so I don't know that affected me. It was just again, what are you going to do with that? What's what's a fifth grader going to do with that? Right? What are you going to do with that? Am I going to stick my head in the sand? Am I gonna quit? Am I gonna whine? Am I gonna freaking? You know, do the go through the same thing that my dad and my grandpa and my great grandpa and my grandma and my great grandma went through? No, so you figure it out. You figure it out. You move forward.

Shane Sparks

You go to Iowa, Dan Gable, leading the way. All that great success that tradition, I'm assuming, Terry, that you red shirted.

Terry Brands

I did.

Shane Sparks

What was that season like for you?

Terry Brands

That was awesome. The philosophy on a red shirt is always that you are getting ready, and then we'll decide when the Big Ten tournament comes, whether or not we're going to take that red shirt offers we're going to stay in. And so in when Gable talked, I hung on every single word he said. And so I was getting ready to win a national championship as a true freshman,

Shane Sparks

and ultimately a red shirted Yes,

Terry Brands

yes.

Shane Sparks

And then how did you do as a red shirt freshman?

Terry Brands

I did not great. I lost matches. I think I lost two or three matches that year, and I didn't make the lineup. A guy named Steve Martin was two time all American here, beat me off the team. And so I didn't even get a wrestle in the Big Ten championships. And that was hard. That was really hard. And you, you, you, you know, again, it was, I think I beat him in the wrestle off in November, and theNILost at two out of three, where I lost two straight to him, I think, in February. And so you're, I mean, you're, you're devastated. It's, it's so much harder than the alcohol, dealing with the alcohol with your dad. It's so much harder than the divorce. It's so much harder than then, you know, death in the family, because those are all things that I couldn't control, and I could control that loss. So that's, that was really, that was a very challenging moment in my career.

Shane Sparks

How'd you get past it? How'd you deal with it? At that time you were, you know, 1920 years old.

Terry Brands

You I followed the team. We was back when you could, you know, we would go to the state tournament, because the state tournament was a week earlier, and we would spend, you know, a day and a half at state tournament and train there for Gable would take the team there, and I followed the team there, and I acted like I was getting ready for the Big Ten championships. And, you know, all the way to the bitter end, all the way until the tell you. Tell you.

Terry Brands

Steve Martin got on the scale, you know,

Shane Sparks

and then the next year, 1990 you'll win it in Maryland, you'll win the national title. Like, when you when you reflect on it, especially now, you know, being 58 years old, and all the time you've had as a coach as well, different perspective, different lens, like, how are you able to do that? What do you what do you appreciate about making those kind of gains? What happened?

Terry Brands

It's the same. It's, you know, the gains that you made were incremental, and at that point in time you're not really, you know, looking back, oh, I can win. Now, I always thought I could win. That's the number one thing I had going for me that I backed up what I thought. And I backed it up in the training room. I backed it up in the way that I thought about myself. I backed it up in the way myself talk was I backed it up with my diet, with my with my recovery, with my hydration, you know, just, you know, you fuel yourself with with books like Eat to Win and you know, all these things, these mental toughness routines and and going back to going through your notes when you were in sixth, seventh grade in camp about, you know, self talk and all of that stuff. So, so when you look like when, when you're at that pinnacle in, you know, College Park, Maryland, and you're there. It's not like, oh, I can win. Now, it was same as I talked about earlier, every match during that year in it was okay. This is what's next. This is what's next. This is what's next. Big Tens. This is what's next. This is what this is. This is okay. Now we're going to the national tournament, and it was one match at a time, and you do the right things, you control the things that you can control, you're going to be on the top stand, and nothing, nothing will hold you back. How

Shane Sparks

awesome was

Terry Brands

it myself? How

Shane Sparks

awesome was it to stand at top the podium as a national champ? What do you remember from that time.

Terry Brands

It's not, I mean, it's, it's, it's awesome because it's better you than somebody else, but it's not awesome because it's so expected. And maybe that's why I don't appreciate it so much. You know? Maybe that's why the losses suck so freaking bad, because the winning part was expected. You control the things that you can control Terry Brands, and you're going to stand on the frickin top stand and, you know, leave no stone unturned. And that's how I approach life, and that's how I that's how I approach life now, and you go through it like that. And so you know that you are the prepared better than any anybody in the planet at your weight class or any other one.

Shane Sparks

What was the biggest threat when you were at Iowa? What was the biggest threat to your excellence?

Terry Brands

Myself, how

Terry Brands

you stay on track? You? What

Shane Sparks

was the most difficult? What was the most difficult aspect of discipline? Like, was there a particular area that was more challenging than other areas?

Terry Brands

There's not because it goes back to what you want to accomplish. So, you know, like you're talking about so, like a lot of people go, you got to sacrifice to be the best, not really. The Sacrifice is when you don't sacrifice the way a normal civilian would sacrifice. That's the sacrifice that, oh, I got to sacrifice going downtown with so and so, because there might be a big party that I'm going to miss. I got to sacrifice not doing that. No, because I sacrifice the gold medal or I chip away at the trophy, if I do do those things, and I'm not going to chip away at the trophy, I'm going to focus on the things control, the things that I can control. And you stay, you stay in that in that zone, as as you know, guys are the best of the best of the best at their in their industry, how they how they approach it. And so it does that make sense? I mean, it's, it's hard because it's not what most people you're you're looking at a guy that's really ordinary with skills. And I was very fortunate to have God grab me and go, Hey, you got a really unique opportunity in front of you. And, you know, let's go. And I felt that calling, and I answered, and I answered today, and so I guess that's how I would describe that.

Shane Sparks

Talking to you, Terry, I mean, this is just so enjoyable. I just love talking to great minds.

Terry Brands

Move ahead of Zaputil as a favorite then, well.

Shane Sparks

I gotta, I think I'm gonna really tick you off. I'm gonna tick you off coming up. I'm gonna tick you off again. I'm gonna go to another place that you probably don't love going to. But the what triggered my mind is I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, this guy has had so much success in this sport, and we love this sport, but you know what? Terry as you know, I know it, and I never even wrestled the vision one, but I I've had my disappointments in wrestling, I would call them, even though, looking back, they were so valuable. This sport will rip your heart out, shove it down your throats, kick you as it walks away. But there's something about it. We just love it. We love it. I want to go to 1991 I mean, you talk about the sport being cruel, you're the reigning national champ. You're in Iowa City. And this is another Terry brands connection I have just complete random. I'm in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin in 1991 at my aunt's house, I turned the TV on. I'm not looking for anything particular. And what's on TV? Believe it was CBS, maybe, maybe not. But what's on the national wrestling tournament I was sucked in. I don't know if I've ever been sucked in anything like that in my life. I was 15 years old, and what's Terry? You can't make this stuff up when I turn it on. What's the first image I see? Terry brands in a cradle. I have no idea who you are. I have no if you would have told me that day that we'd be doing this today, I would have been like, What are you talking about? But you're in a cradle. Jason Kelber from Nebraska in Iowa City. How did you get past that one? Like, what do you think about that match? What stands out? And how did you get past it? Because that, that had to be a tough one. They're all tough, but that one had to really be tough.

Terry Brands

Yeah, that's the that's the national titles on the line. So there is, there is, like, a distinction difference and a value difference, if you want to put it on, but the bottom line is that you've got to get ready to go, and you got to be prepared, and you got to listen to your coaches, and you got to, you know, all these things that happen and and, you know, I was really a very strong wrestler, physically. And I would turn in, like, I would sit out, and then I would turn in, and Gable said, you're gonna get cradled. You gotta, you gotta, you know, keep your hips more square. And I was like, okay, yeah, huh, but I could do it. No. Nobody could cradle me there. And in my head, it was a habit, and I didn't formulate a plan. And if Gable is smart enough to show or tell, then so are they. And out of their camp, that was probably something they saw. And I got I got hit. I think it was a two point near fall, and it was a difference. It was a difference in the match.

Shane Sparks

How did the conversation start with you and Coach Gable, after that match, after that tournament,

Terry Brands

he basically said this should never happen to you. You know, you just, you know he was, there's not words, there's, there's not words and there's, I mean, I mean, I mean, you know, I I don't know. I mean, there's just, there's not words. It's just, hey, it should never happen to you. And, you know, I mean, what do you do? And you go forward and you get ready for the next thing.

Shane Sparks

You came back. 1992 got that national title back. I'm always, I always like stories of perseverance. I mean, I just think, I mean, I appreciate stories of people that were at the top, for whatever reason, dropped a little bit and then came back and got it again. Because to me, it's like taking third place at the national tournament this year. Terry, I didn't, I didn't talk to the guys that won it. I talked to the guys that took third place. Third place, to me, is just that is the gut that's the gut check when it's just real easy to feel sorry for yourself, and especially when it's for the team, and you come back and get the next best thing. And that's what you guys preach. How were you able to persevere in coming back and getting that second national title? Anything stand out?

Terry Brands

Same as we talked about, it was, I just remember, after the match was over, I said, it's been a long effing year when I took the bands off, and I, you know, walked by Gable, and, you know, he offered me his hand, and it was very satisfying. But it's not like it was euphoria, and I've arrived, and you know, it's it's about to get a whole lot tougher. The Soviet Union was breaking up or broken up. Up, and that means that there's going to be 15 more Soviets in your weight class. You know what I'm saying, Sure, and that's where my brain went. You know, went to, you know, 92 Olympics hadn't happened yet. And you know you're going to be on that next through that cycle in 96 and that's what you're looking at, and that's what you're getting ready for. So there's downtime, but your mind's on that, like I talked about earlier, how you how you organize that, that those competitive desires that you have, and those mountains that you want to conquer, and how you organize that in your mind, and how it fits, and how you start to formulate training and competitions and how it works together type of stuff.

Shane Sparks

What was it like being part of those teams in the early 90s at Iowa? I mean, you guys were smashing everybody, great teams. What was it like to get to experience that

Terry Brands

again? You're not, you know, it's not like that, man, it's you're doing your job every single day. And Gable is is so grounded himself in a lot of ways. And he kept us grounded, and he kept us real. He kept the priority if you listened, if you listened to him, you would be okay, you would be grounded, and your head could never swell, because it was always about, how can you get better? And if you listen to him talk, that's what it is, you know, especially when you listen to, like, early interviews of him, and how do I get better? And, you know, like, I remember after you'd been retired for four or five years, and I listened to an interview, and he's like, I'm still trying to get better at wrestling, and that's never lost on you, and that, you know, that's kind of how I was raised. That's kind of how you know, you you, you were in, even in the Sheldon high school program, where you're always looking to get better. What can I add. What can I What can I add? What do I have to get better at? What am I really good at? That I can get better at? What am I really good at? And I'm cocky at that I could get ambushed on and then, how do I make sure that I don't get ambushed? And you just go through it, you organize that, you know, you figure that stuff out. And that's, that's how it was then, with those teams and with those teammates, and we were tight. We were tight. And, you know, there were me Tom and the Steiners were we never had a drop of alcohol in our lives. And so it was a unique, you know, thing that way, does that make sense?

Shane Sparks

Absolutely no. You

Terry Brands

know, the, I guess the reputation of a lot of guys is, you know, offseason, you know, enjoy the fruits of your labor. And we enjoy the fruits of our labor by going back to the training room and being in that doggone camp environment in a field house that's literally, I mean, literally 90 degrees in there, and you're losing literally 12 to 13 to 14 pounds in a freaking workout. That's where you're honed, that's where you get tight, that's where you get tough, that's where you get sharp. That's where your skills are formed. That's how you conquer your plans and conquer your the things that you want to attain, and get the attributes that you want and win the goals that you have set for yourself.

Shane Sparks

You've been around Dan Gable a long time. Is there a conversation or two that stands out?

Terry Brands

Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you a conversation about making weight. When I was making weight at 118 pounds, he was showing me. He was taking me through the ropes, teaching you how to you know, you want carbs. You want carbs, you want protein, and you want your fats unsaturated. And it's, you know, basically what, 60-20-20 for him, and, and, and then you tweak it and make it work for your body. And, and he was, he was really, really good. And we were eating, and I got done, and he goes, he points out this carrot and the cracker, and I grabbed the carrot, and I eat the carrot, and I'm sitting there, and this kind of, he points at the cracker, and I go, I'm good, I'm good. And he goes, You give a million dollars for that cracker in a week, week eat the cracker. So I ate the cracker, and then, like, fast forward a week, we were on the bike together, and I go, Hey, Gable, I give a million dollars to that cracker right now. It was just one of those learning moments where, you know, he knew the calorie deficit and what it was going to feel like, and I I could cut weight, but not, not that way, not where you're you. Or, you know, you basically have a descent plan instead of a weight cut, and you counted every calorie, and every every calorie counted. So, you know, that was, that was, that was one for sure. And then there were some other great ones about success, and he's just been a great mentor and a good friend recently.

Shane Sparks

How often you talked with Coach Gable?

Terry Brands

We were out splitting wood last Wednesday, a week ago. We were out there and and he was, he's getting that movie ready to go and keeping his his he's got a wood burning sauna. So we were, we were we were keeping him. We still got some work. We got to go out and organize the pile for him. And

Shane Sparks

that's great stuff. I mean, it's hard to believe that you're 58 and he was done by the time he was 50, right? I mean, like, he was like 4849 years old, I believe,

Terry Brands

yeah, he was before 50. It was, he was born in October of 48 so do the math.

Shane Sparks

Great stuff here with Terry brands. I want to ask you this Terry when in relation to Coach Gable, obviously, you said it before you hang in every word. You're very similar. But what? What are the biggest differences from a coaching philosophy? Where are you different than Coach Gable?

Terry Brands

I first of all, I've never said I'm similar to him. That's those are your words.

Shane Sparks

And I stand by those,

Terry Brands

what?

Shane Sparks

And I stand by those,

Terry Brands

okay, well, that's a compliment for me, I guess. And I would say that I can't be Dan Gable. I don't want to be Dan Gable. I want to be me, and I want to be me at the best that I can possibly be. And I want to make a difference. And I want to teach these guys how to get their freaking hand raised the right way, and how to remain peer and how to, you know, you know, think through that and and be accountable and have a work ethic and be relied upon, and all these things that matter, that really, truly matter in life. And that means that when it's time to compete, you got to be at your best, and when it's time to be with your wife, you got to be with your wife, and you got to be attentive. And when you're with your children, you got to be attentive to your children's needs. And that's what it means. It's not a pie shape. It's 100 in on everything that you decide to do and and I think Gable is like that. He was, he was, and is, you know, he's the best motivator that that maybe history has ever known, and he people, people would, you know, go through hell to get to be with him. And you know, that's that's awesome, and that's what I want and expect from our team, not to go through hell, the because I say it, but to believe that the experiences that I have, and that when I coach, that you believe that, and you are accountable to that and make it make sense in your own world of wrestling, in your own life, don't be like me. I mean, you said, Oh, he's got all these successes talking about me. I, I mean, I look at me. I'm not, I'm not a success. I had wins, yeah, but it's about what's next. It's about what's next. And that's, you know, I think we're similar that way, but how we got there, and how we get there, and how we talk the guys he coached, like him coaching me, I can't coach Jacob Warner the same way that Dan Gable coached me. The great, the genius of Gable was, everybody's an individual. And yeah, we've all been created in the image of God, but we all have different, different things, and we all are a little bit different from each other, and some of us are a lot different from each other. And as a coach, you got to know, I mean, you got to really know your your person. You got to know your athlete. And if you don't, it's, it's going to be, it sucks, because then maybe they don't get to attain what they set out to attain. And, you know, that's where I take it personal. And so I'm doing everything I can. I'm doing everything I can for these guys. And at the end of the day, they got to earn it. They got to earn it, and that's the difference. I'm not doing everything I can for them and wipe their nose and wipe their, you know, their rear end. I'm doing everything I can to teach them accountability, to teach them how to work by themselves. You.

Terry Brands

Anybody can come in and go through our workouts. What are they doing when they're supposed to be resting? What are they doing when they're supposed to come in and get that workout in? What are they doing when there's a cutting calories on a on a weight descent? What are they doing with their hydration? What are they doing with their recovery? That's what I want to teach.

Shane Sparks

I want to talk about some Mount Rushmore questions. Piggybacking off what you just said in your coaching career, give me your Mount Rushmore guys of most disciplined, just most disciplined. Hell, maybe they didn't even start, just most disciplined guys that you've coached, Mount Rushmore, who's on it?

Terry Brands

Well, I would say Michael Keefe would be one.

Shane Sparks

And who's that?

Terry Brands

He wrestled for me at Chattanooga. He was in the national semifinals.

Shane Sparks

Okay,

Terry Brands

I would say, I mean, trying to think through this a minute, he comes to mind because he had a twin brother, and they brought, they wore the same size shoe, and they brought four right footed shoes to the national tournament. And I had to call my wife and have her turn around and get into the locker to get their shoes. So they were, they were all, man, were they workers? They were workers. I don't, I don't, I don't know how much time you gonna give me. I'm burning your clock, dude, this is great. Hey, this is, this is good stuff. I'm okay. I'm okay. Waiting. I'm thinking back to, you know, maybe Emmett Wilson at Montana State, northern um um, I don't know. Emmett Wilson won the Hodge in NAIA. Yes, yep.

Shane Sparks

Anybody else most disciplined? Two other guys, two other guys. Yeah two other guys.

Terry Brands

Wow, I don't know there's there's guys that were disciplined. Anybody

Shane Sparks

else stand out that was just maybe not Mount Rushmore discipline, but still pretty good.

Terry Brands

I mean, they're, yeah, they're, they're disciplined in their own ways. And, you know, there, there are guys that make it work. That makes sense,

Shane Sparks

okay?

Terry Brands

There were guys that were, you know, super disciplined in one area, and then they would self destruct in another, you know, I mean, it's, that's a that's a tough question. I'll go with, I'll go with those two guys for now,

Shane Sparks

from a overall talent standpoint, overall talents, guys that you've coached Mount Rushmore. Who are your four? The four best guys you've coached

Terry Brands

T.J., Joe, Cejudo and talent, talent. Mo Lawal,

Shane Sparks

okay, let's see here. What else do I got for you? I know what I want to talk about. How can we forget this? What do you appreciate most about Tom brands,

Terry Brands

Tom brands, senior or Tom brands, the second

Shane Sparks

Tom brands, the second,

Terry Brands

ah, he, he juggles, you know the I call him The Wizard of the accounts. You know, before this, NIL, it was really, really difficult to keep up, and we're still playing catch up. And these other programs are they've been doing pay for play in NIL forever, in the way that he was able to juggle those accounts, and still does today, and maintains that that relationship with donors, he raised 35 freaking million dollars for this facility when, when in any other part of the Board of Regents here, they would, they would be like, you get 60% we'll put a shovel in the ground. And we were told that you have to get every penny before you put a shovel in the ground. And he did it. He didn't. He did not let, he never does. Let anybody tell him that there is something that he can't do and just a way that he is able to, you know. Maintain that evenness through being able to be a great wrestling coach on the mat, and also, you know, be the Wizard of the accounts. And he's, I mean, some of the stuff that you know that he's pulled off with with our donors in in when our donors get to know him, and then they really, really just, they just fall in love with us. And that's what these jackasses on the internet don't realize. They don't realize they see this, they see this, and they're like, Oh, that guy. And they don't know. They don't know. And that's a part. That's a part. It's mysterious because I'm like, you know, it's like, it's like, Belichick, how can you not like the guy? Yeah, he's got his quirks, and he's whatever, with his marriage and his girlfriend and this and that. But that's not what I'm studying. I'm studying the winner. I'm studying the things that made him great, that'll that I can add to my life. Gable, what do you how do you not like that guy? What you you didn't like him because he beat the living tar out everybody for all those years. I'm studying Gable, you know, etc, and all these other great people. And instead, it just, he's just a lightning rod, and I love it. I love it. You know? What I love even more is he loves it. He loves it. And we both. We go to bed and sleep very well at night. What

Shane Sparks

are the biggest differences between you two?

Terry Brands

Um, I would say that I'm more like I'm down your throat more I'm going to say it a little bit more harsh or more aggressive. That would probably be the biggest difference? Well, both, both are extremely accountable and hold people accountable, but maybe a little bit different, but that's a question for other people. That's not a question for me, really.

Shane Sparks

What about him annoys you the most?

Terry Brands

Um, nothing, nothing we when we when we disagree. Probably the same thing that annoys him about me would be that we both think that this is the better way, and we're always so close anyway, we the biggest difference is how to get there, like I want to get here too, and then maybe when we have differences in how to get there, the stubbornness that's involved, but that's that's with any corporation, right?

Shane Sparks

He your best friend?

Terry Brands

What is

Shane Sparks

he your best friend?

Terry Brands

I would say yes to that. And I would say that I have, I have people that are as good friends, as good of friends as him. But you know, when you grow up the way that we did, and back in the day, we hated each other, but we loved each other, and now we just love each other. How

Shane Sparks

often you guys spend, obviously, together a ton at work. I mean, you got you guys hang out outside of work a lot, or you guys kind of, then get to be with other people and, you know, those, oh, we

Terry Brands

do we, you know, we're, you know, it's not like I go over to his house at night after practices and during the season and stuff. But, you know, on down days, if we got to go grab a tree, you know, you know, grab, get a grab, a chainsaw, cut a tree up, or we got to move this tree for this guy, or this donor needs that, or whatever. We'll go do that together. You know, we'll sit in a deer stand once or twice a year. We'll hunt pheasants a couple times a year together. Shoot. We shoot, you know, when, when there's a down day, and on the weekend, you know, we'll shoot. And, you know, the hobby stuff, I guess it's not a lot, but it's, it's enough. It's enough. He's, he's a really meticulous chainsaw and shooter, and I just want to get the stuff cut up. And if I'm in the kill zone, I'm good. But he's like, I gotta get it right in there. And, you know, the chainsaw, the logs got to be uniform. And for me, if they fit in my stove, I'm good.

Shane Sparks

You talked about the love you have for each other. And I mean, you guys are tough guys. I'm again, I was, I was curious about this stuff, because I, I have one brother. He's 22 months younger. He's my best friend. I love him. And, you know, we just kind of recently, within the last couple of years, probably have kind of made a point to tell him, and it's a little awkward, at least, when we started like, hey, you know I love you, and I hang up the phone. I love you. I give him a hug. It's. Yeah,

Shane Sparks

you know, it's just taking a little bit of time. Do you guys? You guys do that?

Terry Brands

I think so. I don't know how often it wouldn't be corny or it wouldn't be uncomfortable, but I think it's so understood in the love language is the same that it doesn't need to be said. Would that make sense?

Shane Sparks

Sure?

Terry Brands

Like if he died or I died, I don't think that he would be sorry that he didn't tell me he loved me. I know it in, you know, and the same with him. If he died, I wouldn't be, oh, I wish I would have told him I loved him. He knows it, and it's different than a wife, you know, the nurturing isn't the same. You know, I don't need to nurture we don't nurture each other. We build off of each other, and we try to put the best doggone product on the mat every single day. And you know, we both. We profess and love Jesus. And you know, there, there are just things that there are a lot of similarities where you know you have that you go through that life and it, you know, people say, Well, you shouldn't leave anything unspoken. But it's different with a twin brother like that, he knows it. He knows it. And I bet you, he would tell you the same thing. And it's the awkward part is like, when somebody wins a match and then he comes up, shakes my hand, Hey, good job with that match. You know, I'm like, Hey, we're freaking. Just win it. We just want to win that's funny. I think that's funny. So

Shane Sparks

you win a couple world titles. It's been well documented, 1996 Olympic trials, and you come back. Believe it was Sydney in 2000 getting Olympic bronze medal. Talk about perseverance, coming back. You're well, in your 30s. I want to ask you this, when it came to those 1996 Olympic trials, full wrestling. Did that documentary Terry, which I thought it was awesome. I got to see that. I was with Bader. We were in some hotel, covering some event before it was released. And I got to see it. I thought it was just captivating. I loved it when you watched that documentary, what part of that documentary was most powerful to you?

Terry Brands

Um, I didn't, I didn't really watch it. I was in on it. So the most powerful part would have been when he asked that question. And it was, you could see the light changing like I could see the light changing through my living room window. And I'm like, Okay, well, and I don't mind, I'll sit, I'll answer questions all day long. But then he went to the Olympics in 96 the trials, and I was like, I think I said it. I was like, Are we really going down this? And then it was like, Okay, well, here we go. You know, in that was, that was, I mean, he had a lot of, can I say balls? Is that? Did that bother you? Bleep me out. If it does, you're

Shane Sparks

fine. You're fine.

Terry Brands

He had a lot of big marbles from Bader

Terry Brands

in Bader, Bader is a genius, because he didn't start there. He didn't start there. He probably was cold and calculated. And he was like, I know how to get him to go there. And he did. He disarmed me, and then they hit me with it. And it that, I would say, that's, that's the moment.

Shane Sparks

What? What made you want to go back, you know? What? Was there a moment a day when you're like, you know what? I'm trying to make another Olympic team and win another, you know, want to go open? L,

Terry Brands

I was like, I mean, and then, you know, I wrestled in 97 I won the U.S. Open, I won the World Team trials. And then I didn't wrestle, and then I did it 98 I'm, you know, in, you know, then you'd kind of retire or take a year off. And then 99 you do the same thing again, you win, and then you win the trials. And, you know, you just, I don't know. I don't know. And like, I, like I said on the FloWrestling thing, you know, I wasn't hurt, but this was hurt, this and this, this was hurt in they didn't line up and it didn't make sense. Like, you know, I talked about earlier organizing, you know, you even when you have a great coach like Dan Gable, you're still accountable to organize and make sense of your training and how it looks and how it works in your life. And I just I couldn't make sense of it. And it was, it was like I was being a big baby and I was feeling sorry for myself, and I was and I was a victor. Them. I was a victim about not making the team, and I wasn't thinking about it clearly at all. And, you know? And then I remember when I when I wrestled in a duel against the Iranians in Des Moines, and I was out there, and I couldn't do anything to the guy. I couldn't do anything to that guy. And it was literally like in my head when I was wrestling. It was like watching a youth wrestling tournament, the way that I felt when I was out there. And I'm like, This is crazy. I forgot how to wrestle, and I remember sitting in that locker room and the guy Randy fake is that got us started into wrestling. He comes in and he's just sitting there with me, and then Tom comes in and and he's like, Hey, you don't have to compete. And I was like, I know, I know I don't have to compete, but I also know that, you know Colossians, it says when you do something, you do it as if you're doing it for the Lord. So everything that I do in my life is is checked against that. And it was so foreign. It was like I was having an experience outside of my body as I was competing against this guy. And so I was like, Okay, I'll retire. And then I did. And then Gable had said something to me. He said, You have to train different. Tell me if I'm getting too long winded. No, you. This is great. Terry, all time in the world said that. He was like, You got to train different. And, um, I don't know how to train different. I know one way. I know one way. And he goes, You have to train different. You have to learn how to train different. You're older, you know, you got all this experience, you know, make it make sense in you. And I didn't know what that meant. I knew one way, you know, grind yourself. You know, into the nub, and then when it's time to rest, rest, and then when it's time to work, work. Do you just work yourself all the way to the end? And I remember that and and when I retired, I didn't wrestle, like if, if Ironside wanted to wrestle, and I was beat up and sore, and I was retired. I was like, I'll go with you tomorrow. And, you know, like McIlravy or whoever wanted to go or whatever. And I was drilling. I was a coach at the time, and I was drilling a lot, and I was putting guys through lifts and stuff and and doing all that. And then all of a sudden, because I wasn't wrestling every day I was wrestling when I only when I felt recovered enough to wrestle. All of a sudden, I was in the best shape of my life. And it was weird. And it was weird in in it was around Christmas. It was before Christmas in December, and Tom came up to me in the room. He goes, you're going to compete, aren't you? And I go, Yeah, and there ain't a god dang thing you can do about it. And I walked out, and I don't know why I said it like that, but I was really on edge. I was really on edge. I wanted it not to be known, but I wanted people to know, but I didn't want them to know. You know, Gable had been, he had been done coaching at that point in time, and so I was on staff with Jim Zalesky, and it was just, it was just a really weird time in my career, and I was like, there's nobody that can beat me. Nobody can beat me. And I made my mind up. And I remember going to the trials that I was heavy. I was heavy, and Tom came up to me, and he was like, Okay, we're going to do this. And I looked at him, and he goes, it's your call, dude. And this is something I've never shared. And I was like, let's go. Then we got the car and we went, and I made the weight, and I made the team. And it was, it was one of those deals where, you know, it was, like, I said, with God, where he has you. It was one of them deals where he had you, he had he had me, right where he wanted me, and I was in that spot where you're gonna persevere, or it one way or another, you're gonna be held accountable. And that's and that's what happened, and that's what happened.

Shane Sparks

You go to the Olympics, you wrestle for third, you get the bronze, you got the next best thing. How proud of that effort? Are you?

Terry Brands

I'm not

Shane Sparks

be Terry, and I know, I know I'm putting words in your mouth a little bit. But how can you not be proud of that? Like, are you?

Terry Brands

Okay? I'm not. I'm not this proud of it. But the thing is, you go there to win. And you, you you train, and you do something for your entire life to become something. And, you know, I like, like these guys that they go like this when they win, and then they go, I'm not defined by that. Well, I'm not maybe defined by that in my entrance to heaven, but I'm defined by that as an Olympic gold medalist or not an Olympic gold medalist, so I'm not an Olympic gold medalist, and that bothers me. That bothers me. So, yeah, I got the next best thing, but Gable said something one time in an interview. I don't even remember where I saw it. He said that if Terry brands was going to be so disfa that dissatisfied with that bronze medal. He says he was. He wouldn't have never wrestled that hard to win that bronze. And that's fair. That's fair. I'll give him that. It was something that that he had taught me, you get the next best thing. And there was no way I was, I was going to leave that, that mat, you know, without that bronze medal, but go back to the semi, there was no way I was going to leave that mat without advancing to the finals. It's just how you deal with it. When the results turned in, what are you going to do with it next? How do you handle it? How do you persevere through what's next?

Shane Sparks

What do you think Terry, everybody's got a story. What about Terry brand's story? Do you think is the most interesting personally, like when you when you reflect on your wrestling journey, what do you think is the most interesting thing about it?

Terry Brands

I love what Chael Sonnen and said, and I'll go back to that from the very beginning. I loved what he said. I've never thought about it that way. And, you know, he was talking about the, why is it that? Why are they such a lightning rod? And when he came to that conclusion, and actually, let's, let's talk about, also, I had a guy, one of the greatest wrestlers in American history, that came up to me in Colorado Springs a number of years ago, and he was like your legacy of wanting to pound your opponents into submission and wanting to score as many points as possible every single time you wrestled. I wish I would have handled my career like that. That meant a lot to me, and that's exactly how I handled my career. That's exactly how I approached every man. And when I got a guy that's got a lot better accolades than me, tell me that and talk about legacy. He was like, my legacy is boring. I win three to one, I win two to one, I win three to two, I win three to zero. If you were winning three to zero, you would win four to 05, to 06, to 07, to 08, to zero. And those were his words. Those weren't my words. And when I combine that with what Chael Sonnen and said, that's the part that, that I want are, if I could, if I could, give what's here and here to a wrestler that I'm mentoring. That's what I want them to understand. That's what it's about, going out and giving your best every single freaking time you step on that mat. If

Shane Sparks

you had to have a conversation with an 18 year old Terry brands heading to Iowa City, what would you have? What would you tell them?

Terry Brands

I would say, stay grounded. Stay grounded. Keep a hold of your aspirations. Keep a hold of your aspirations. Understand how to attain the goals that you're after, understand how to attain the goals that you're after, and don't lose sight of the things that are important. Don't lose sight of the things that are important. And most of all, keep your eye on Jesus. Keep your eye on Jesus. That's what I would say, and I have zero regrets. I have no regrets. I don't regret not winning the gold medal. I don't regret it. I'm just kicked off at myself or not.

Shane Sparks

When did faith become a part of your life?

Terry Brands

I think we were born in the image of God. And I think I was fortunate to be raised where a mom, you know, we were me and Tom were the donkey in the Christmas the nativity scene. I think he was the ass end, and I was ahead, and we were, it was, it's probably my earliest memory. We were probably three or four or five years old, whatever that would be. And we were just in church a lot, and then we had a pastor that talked about salvation one time. And my God's always had me. He's always, he's always had me. He's, you know, it's like that footprints poem, you know, that. Footprints

Shane Sparks

fall absolutely in, walking in the sand. What

Terry Brands

the heck? In the worst part, I only see one set of footprints, and Jesus says, well, that's when I carried you.

Shane Sparks

Yeah, that's a great that's a great one, because it's so

Terry Brands

that is it. That is That is life for me. That is life and, and that's the number one, most important thing, and I taught myself to pray, and I taught my kids to pray that thank you for going to the cross for my sins and thank you for rising on the third day. That's how I end every prayer, and that's where I'm at. And that's not a shock to other religions or non believers. It's not but that's the context. So if you want to understand me, you got to understand that that's I'm coming from that, from that piece in the New Testament where he says, No longer do I call you servants. I call you friends. For the servant does not know what his master is doing. You know what I'm doing. I am telling you what I'm about. You are my friend. Think about that. That is power, that is power, and that's what I want. I want that in my life, every single day.

Shane Sparks

Want to ask you this from a coaching standpoint, this day and age and wrestling, the scrambling, is unbelievable. It's amazing. NCAA Tournament U.S. Open these young guys that are showing up and getting it done. What do you believe? Terry is something from a technical standpoint, your opinion here, something technically in wrestling that you believe might be overrated, and then something underrated, technically,

Terry Brands

um, I don't know if I could answer that concrete, the underrated. It's not really underrated, but maybe something that the Americans could be better at would be throwing legs back, you know, down blocking, and then being able to push back in or down block, re shot. Down block, go behind, type stuff, down block, push back. We call it, you know, putting a guy under attack, even when you're under attack. You know, getting safe. Counter offense, counter offense and what, what counter offense really means. Why is it called counter offense? Well, that's the order. That's the order. Maybe understanding that better would be something that that we could get better at. Overrated? Is there something that's overrated?

Shane Sparks

I'm not sure.

Terry Brands

I don't think so. I think there's trends, and I think there's cycles, and I think that you you're going to see things that you saw in the early 2000s again, and you're going to see things that you saw and you know, like Doc Bennett, who's a good friend of mine. He was with USA Wrestling forever, and I worked with him, with with Kevin Jackson out in Colorado Springs and and he would call like, when you when you guy attacks you and you catch front headlock, or you snap and catch front headlock. He would call it spreading the triangle. Well, that's just a go-behind. You know that's, that's what Gable called a go-behind. Or Gable called it short offense, because your arms are short. You don't want your elbows hooked in on that front headlock stuff. So you know that? Doc Bennett goes back to the 60s. Gable goes back to the late 60s, 70s, coaching through the 80s, in the 90s, and then, you know, you throw your legs back. You're in short offense. You throw your legs back, spread the triangle, you throw your legs back, front, headlock. Throw your legs back, extend him. Go behind. Throw your legs back. Extend him. Catch the leg. Go behind, catch the leg. You know, you see how it works, and it's really the same, and then, and then it goes to where the probably another part that's underrated is, how does it fit that guy that you're coaching? How does he make sense of it? Okay, here's the fundamental. Now, how does this make sense to you? Gabe Arnold, how does this make sense to you? Harvey Ludington, you know? And then they add their own flavor to it, and they have a really, really unique way of displaying a fundamental skill. So that's how I would answer that. But that's a great question. I don't think there is anything over or underrated. There's things that you got to get better at, and there's things that you're good at that you got to get better at, and there's fundamental skills that you maybe haven't developed that you need to develop

Shane Sparks

just a couple more quick ones for you. What are your non negotiables? If I'm wrestling for Terry brands, what are the non negotiables?

Terry Brands

Accountability, being able to do things on your own, taking direction and then following through with it. You know when you're when you when you got to get up, then you got to get up, and when we're going to meet, you got to be there. And you know that that self accountability in really, it comes down to when you're out on the mat all by yourself. So

Terry Brands

you know, fight, you fight you will have what you want at the end of the day. Fight, fight. That's a non negotiable.

Shane Sparks

Who is the guy that you've coached that reminds you the most of yourself?

Terry Brands

Oh, man, um, yeah. I don't know that I can answer that. Fair, there's pieces of people, and they're just, they're, you know, I don't know

Shane Sparks

who reminds you the most of you when it comes to physicality,

Terry Brands

nobody. No, what

Shane Sparks

scoring points?

Terry Brands

Nobody. I mean, I, like I said, I wasn't that great. I was just, I wanted to win so bad. That's what I had going for me. Terry,

Shane Sparks

you exhausted the scoreboard, a term I like to use. I mean, when Tom and Terry brands came to the mat, the scoreboard wasn't, wasn't ready. That's,

Terry Brands

that's what that guy said to me in Colorado Springs, and that's basically what Chael Sonnen and said, and that's a compliment, but that's how I approach life, as I said earlier. So, you know? I mean, it wouldn't be any other way

Shane Sparks

if you had to go on a cross country trip, coast to coast with three people you've never met, dead or alive. Who are you picking?

Terry Brands

I'm going with Jesus. I'm going with Arsen Fadzaev, and I'm going with Yvon Riemer.

Shane Sparks

Oh, there you go. There you go. Some hammers, some hammers on that ride. How do you want to be remembered?

Terry Brands

I want to be remembered. How I'm remembered. I make no apologies, and I love what I do, and I love people, and I love the friends that I have, and I love the environment I'm in. That's how I want to be remembered, that I that I am what I am. And you know what? It's awesome. It's awesome.

Shane Sparks

Terry, this has been great. Really appreciate it. Thanks for joining the podcast. Lot of really good stuff and fun to catch up with you. Thank you so much.

Terry Brands

You are awesome. I appreciate you. And, um, I think Did I crack the top 10 of your favorites?

Shane Sparks

Hey, I've always Terry. I think I've told you this before. I get asked quite a bit about you. And hey, it's well documented, Terry, be people you're screaming. I'll be doing the broadcast. You're screaming at me. I don't know what I'm so dialed in. I can't hear you, by the way. I have no idea what you're yelling at before half the time, but I just I appreciate you. I've always said this about you and your brother. Moral compass is due north. You're always fair. You've always been great to me when, and I will never judge you like, I will never judge you around a scoreboard, like, it's just not, it's just not, it's just the way, you know what I mean, I'm not going to judge Terry Brands, like, let's judge Carrie against, you know, what's a dual meet against Penn State and Carver-Hawkeye with 15,000 people, one versus two, whatever it might be like, that's just not a good you know,

Shane Sparks

don't

Terry Brands

Hey, that's fair. It's

Shane Sparks

just fair, but, but you've always been really good to me, and I appreciate it, and looking forward to, you know, to seeing you soon in inside Carver. It's Carver Hawkey arena. To me, a lot of it's, you know, based on age, I'm not going to apologize for it, like, like you say it's, it's my favorite arena. There's nothing like going to Carver. There's just nothing like it. And I, I hate, I hate Andy Hamilton's New York Yankees. But, you know, Yankee Stadium is pretty special place, just like Carver is and and wrestling is better when Carver's rocking. I mean, just, just the way it is.

Terry Brands

Roger that. Thank you so much. Well,

Terry Brands

you are one of my favorites, dude, someday we'll someday we'll hit a bike ride me you and Tom Ryan,

Shane Sparks

looking forward to it. Thanks so much, Terry,

Terry Brands

maybe I can stay on your back tire. You. You.