Stephen Neal | Episode 6

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

Shane Sparks

And welcome to Stories from the Resilite. It is episode number six. It's been so much fun. This guest here today might have the most remarkable, incredible story of anybody that has ever stepped foot on the Resilite. Stephen Neal, four-time All-American, two-time national champion, Dan Hodge Trophy winner, 1999 world freestyle champion, 10-year career in the NFL, three-time Super Bowl champion. Unbelievable when you think about those kinds of credentials. Stephen Neal, I am so looking forward to this. It's going to be fun to scrap with you, a bigger guy, but I got a pretty good hand fight. Welcome to Stories from the Resilite. How have you been?

Stephen Neal

Doing great, just living life here in sunny California, down here, San Diego area, a little town called Poway. I've called it home the last 15 years, and just raising kids and having fun.

Shane Sparks

What keeps you busy these days?

Stephen Neal

So, I have, I had two daughters playing Division I volleyball, one started, or, sorry, Division One volleyball, one started Oregon, and this, the second one went to Arizona State, and last year they, the oldest one, transferred to Arizona State, so my wife and I got to go watch all their games this last year, they had a pretty successful season and made it to the Sweet 16, and then my son, he graduated last year from Poway. He's a wrestler, and I got to go watch him. He had five tournaments this year as a redshirt for Colorado Mesa Division II school out of Grand Junction, Colorado, coached by my former teammate Mike Mendoza. So I was traveling quite a bit, getting to watch my kids compete in sports.

Shane Sparks

I have so many things I want to dive into and talk about, but obviously we don't have three weeks. If you gave me three weeks, I think I could fill the time, but I want to start with this. When you look at the success that you've had as a, as a college athlete and as a pro athlete, how what's it like to be a parent, because not everybody's got, you know, Stephen Neal mindset, genetics, etc. How do you, how are you, for lack of a better way to say it, how are you a normal parent?

Stephen Neal

Well, I think I try to encourage the kids to control their controllables, to work hard and figure out where they can improve. A lot of times in sports, and you'll, you'll, you'll know this is, if you're really good in one area, you want to stay there, and you don't want to go into the deep waters, where it's tough, but if you really want to improve at sports, you got to find those areas of weakness, and you got to challenge yourself each and every day, and I was able to do that at Bakersfield to improve my areas of weakness, to make them strengths, and same thing in football, there were so many weaknesses when I first got there, but I was able to work on those and not hide from them, because so many times you want to stay in your strengths and that doesn't help you improve.

Shane Sparks

How would you describe yourself as a sports parent?

Stephen Neal

I think I'm pretty laid back. I coached my kids when they were younger, once they got to their coaches. I try to support them, and I try to give them one or two things to focus on, like, hey, for basketball this time, let's let's work on sprinting down the court, let's work on, you know, and let the coach do his thing, but just try to help them every time you shoot. I want you to jump in the air, you know, just little things each and every time. So I think I'm pretty relaxed, but I want the kids to have success. And then my son, like, I know his strengths and weaknesses in wrestling, and there's no expectation that he has to go out and beat a high school kid like Jax Forrest, you know what I mean. So go out there and try to get one score, you know? Let's, let's keep it real, where everyone feels like, “I've got to win right now,”, and that's not really, you know, that's not successful thinking, you got to go and improve, and then close the gap.

Shane Sparks

What was your introduction to wrestling?

Stephen Neal

I have an interesting introduction to wrestling. In ninth grade, I got done with JV football. I was in my homeroom class, and one of my classmates said, "What are you going to do next sports semester? And I said probably basketball, because my dad was a basketball player at the University of Maryland, and he said, "Why don't you try wrestling? I told him, "I don't know anything about wrestling except for The Breakfast Club, the movie, and he says, "All you need to know, it was tougher than football. And so right then I took the challenge, and I showed up to wrestling practice, and immediately I knew it was pretty darn tough, because our coach had us run two miles through Balboa Park, carrying various weights, and he had these clubs, and then we got back after a two-mile run. It's like, all right, put your shoes on, we're going to start practice. So, right then I was like, this is different than football, but I'm stubborn, so I would not give him the satisfaction of letting him know that he was right till the end of the season. I finally admitted that wrestling was tougher, and I was going to be done, but my dad liked to watch me compete individually, and so he talked me into doing it the second year, and that's how I got into wrestling.

Shane Sparks

I thought I read that you were in football, wrestling, swimming, tennis, track and field multi sport athlete. Why was that so important?

Stephen Neal

Well, I love playing sports. My dad was a PE major at Maryland, and he took me and my two brothers everywhere and taught us different sports. Tennis was a fun one. The next year, my brother had a car and he was a swimmer, and so I wanted to ride home, so I went to swim practice, and then, so it was just. it was always something. Then he graduated, and I started going to track and field, so it was just something to do at my high school, you know, just staying out of trouble. I think the more positive activities you stack in your day, the less negative things can creep in and get you sidetracked.

Shane Sparks

What was the best you did, Stephen, in high school in California, of course, one division. What's what was the best you did at the state tournament

Stephen Neal

My senior year, I placed fourth in the state at 189 pounds,

Shane Sparks

and when you went to Cal State Bakersfield, first question, why was that the right fit at the time?

Stephen Neal

So I got recruited by four different schools, there was the University of Oregon, there was Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, there's Cal State Bakersfield, and then there's Cal State Fullerton. Now, two of those programs have they lost their programs, but I went to Fullerton, I got to wrestle with the coach a little bit, so I saw the wrestling room, but I didn't see any of the other wrestlers in there. I went to Cal Poly, met some wrestlers, but I never walked in the wrestling room. Oregon, I had a great trip up there. We don't water skiing, we watch movies, but I never saw the wrestling room. And then Bakersfield, I show up and, man, I went into the wrestling room, and these guys were scrapping. They had guys my size, they had a bigger coach, Darryl Pope, and they had Pasco Dereu, they had Derek Scott, they had Jason Dell. He had all these stud big guys, and they're just scrapping. And so I knew if I wanted to get good, I'm fourth in the state, and I want to be a national champ. I need to go, and I need to work hard. And that was the place that I saw and identified that was best for me to go and work hard and have success.

Shane Sparks

Did you think about playing football in college, or was it wrestling all the way?

Stephen Neal

I wanted to play football in college. Unfortunately, I didn't have any opportunities out of high school, and so you know, when you're thinking about a Cal Poly or Oregon, they have a football team, and it's like, man, that'd be really cool to go there and try to walk on. But the best opportunity for me was at Bakersfield, and I just, I was hoping that I'd get a chance someday, you know, keep improving, and maybe I get a shot somehow, somewhere down the line, to get an opportunity, but yeah, that was the first time I lifted weights when I went to Cal State Bakersfield, and we trained really hard, and I just kept gaining weight and getting more athletic, and so that helped me out for football later on.

Shane Sparks

I was surprised to read, as you alluded to senior year of high school, you were at 189 when you went to Cal State Bakersfield. At that time, the weight class was 275 believe it went to 285 in 1999 but you didn't redshirt either, correct?

Stephen Neal

No, I did redshirt. Yeah, I was 17 going into college and turned 18 in October. I turned 18 in October, being 189 I was cutting a lot of weight because we had a couple kids who were pretty tough in my in the city league in San Diego City, so I'm like, I don't want to wrestle them every week, so I'll cut weight. I was probably about 210 to 215 so that summer after I took fourth in state, I actually won junior nationals at 220 pounds, and so I was, that's the size I was, but there was no 215 pound weight class back in those days, so I, that was tough, cutting weight, I have respect for everyone cutting weight, I'm not that heavy weight that's eating on the bus, no sir, I'll sit the sauna with you, I won't drink in front of you, I'll be respectful, because that's not fun.

Shane Sparks

When did you fall in love with wrestling? When did you know, like, hey, this is something that I love, I'm pretty good at it? When did you see a future in the sport?

Stephen Neal

Oh, there was probably. there's a few moments, but I think probably the most defining moment for me in 1996 after I had success in college I got to go to the U. S. Open, and I had gone the year before in 95 and I was a match away from placing at 220 but I got to go in wrestle 285 and you had Bruce Baumgartner, you had Tom Erikson, and I was fortunate to make it all the way to third-place match, and I wrestled Justin Greenlee, who had just the year before he lost to Tolly Thompson in the finals of the NCAA finals. He knocked off Kerry McCoy, and so I'm wrestling this monster, and I'm probably 230 no, probably 225 230 you know, smaller, and I find a way to beat him, and I qualified for the Olympic trials, and I got to go to Spokane in 1996 and I got to see all these legends of wrestling compete, and a guy that stands out, and I always tell him this, Pat Santoro, he is wrestling Townsend Saunders, and he's just throwing double legs here, there, and I'm just like, this is so cool, these guys are all the best in the world, you know, and so right then I just kind of fell in love with it, and then I got to go to the springs that year, and every year I. After being part of Team USA, and just meeting these awesome guys who are great wrestlers, but just even better people, and that's probably when I fell in love.

Shane Sparks

Who are some of the guys from those earlier years with those experiences that made a big impact on you?

Stephen Neal

I remember sitting there with Kurt Angle, and he's, you know, he's sitting there, I'm like, "Hey, how are you lifting weights? Because he, I mean, he, you had those 220 pounders back then, you had all the MMA guys, Mark Kerr, yeah, you got Kurt Angle, you got Mark Coleman, I mean, these guys are just monsters, and then you had Bruce Baumgartnertner, he would just ragdoll me the whole time, Tom Erikson, probably the strongest man on earth. That guy is just a monster, and just to get to wrestle with these guys and get beat up at 19 years old, that was, that was just an awesome experience. I know nowadays these younger kids get to get in front of the senior level guys a lot earlier, and they're competing so well, which I don't understand, it's just that it baffles me, but it's really cool to see, to see that. And then guys like Kevin Jackson, he was always there helping out whoever wanted it. Melvin Douglas was around, I mean, they were just very fortunate to be around a lot of great guys

Shane Sparks

at Cal State Bakersfield. Your redshirt, freshman year 1996/4 at the NCAA tournaments, when you think back to that run, your first All-American honor, what stands out? What was most critical during that season to have the success you did

Stephen Neal

is a lot of times in my life it's by the grace of God. So I go into that tournament, I'm all fired up, I want to do well. I win my first match, I lose my second match to Seth Brady from Illinois. He was a probably about my size, about 235 225 or something, and I, he just, he just beat me. And then I get into consolation, and man, it was, it was a gauntlet, you know. Just wrestling, and I remember wrestling, the Oklahoma State guy, and it's like really close match, but I keep hitting shots. We hit the wall because, you know, we're just big guys, you know, and I'm trying to shoot it. I probably took 20 to 30 shots, but we kept going out of bounds. I finally went in overtime, and then I make it to the blood round, so you know I'm excited. I'm going to wrestle this guy who had lost in the quarters, he had never lost the entire season, Nick Hall of Old Dominion, and so I'm just, I'm ready to go, and I get a there's a announcement over the PA, and it's like, can a coach from Cal State Bakersfield please report to the head table, and so I don't know what any of that stuff means, but I'm, I got my warm up in, I'm ready, and my coach, Darryl Pope, comes up. He's like, 'You ready to go? I said, 'Yeah. He's like, 'Congrats for what? You're an All-American. You got a forfeit. The guy hurt his neck, so I got a forfeit. So then he tells me, 'You're gonna have another match tonight, and if you lose this, everyone's gonna say you got lucky. So you got to go out there and you got to compete. And so I show up there as a guy from Pittsburgh, and I was able to beat him, I think, by five or six points, and so then the next day rolls around, and I'm gonna have to wrestle a guy I lost to Billy Pierce from the University of Minnesota, and all of a sudden, as I'm warming up, I hear, can a coach from Cal State Bakersfield report to the head table, and so I'm like, there's no way, there's no way. So then he comes back, he's like, you got another forfeit, and I'm going for third and fourth against Tolly Thompson, who's a return national champ, who got upset and wasn't able to knock him off, but I competed well, and it gave me momentum into the next year. And then, if you look back, that year we took third in the country, and we had four of those bonus points were the from those two forfeits to help us propel us over think it was Nebraska, so taking third as a team was a special moment for our whole for a university, and the state of California had never had another trophy, that was the only trophy we've ever brought back.

Shane Sparks

Are you still involved with the program?

Stephen Neal

I'm in contact with Luke. We try to fundraise the school, as has announced they're, they're, they're going to invest fully in our program now, which is the first time they've, they've done that. They've given a little bit here, a little bit there, but they're, they're willing to come back and invest, and so really thankful and grateful for that, and looking forward to trying to bring some more recruits and some deeper team into the future.

Shane Sparks

I live in Wisconsin, and Luke Smith's Wisconsin guy, doing a good job there, doing a good job there with your experiences, and you have so much to draw from. I mean, it's just, it's hard to comprehend everything you've been involved in with wrestling and football, you talked about getting ready for matches, like what was your mentality, and how did it change, if at all, in preparation for big matches on the big stage or Super Bowls?

Stephen Neal

Yeah, I think. Your preparation happens way before the time you shake hands or the time you run out of the tunnel. That preparation is, you know, that off season. What have you been working on in wrestling? It's all about these certain positions you want to get to, and you watch, I mean, you watch the NCAA last year, and it's like, how come he didn't attack from open here? Why is he going into this tie? Why is it you try to find the areas where you think you have the advantage, and then you try to get there, and so I think I had a really good plan. I had such a good partner and coach, and Darryl Pope, legendary coach here in California, and he always got my mind right before he's like, hey, you got to work on your penetration on this one, you know, or you got to work on this, get that first takedown, you know, and just got my mind away from thinking about the entirety of the match, and just focus on that first moment of the first 1015 seconds, and then once that's that's going on, you're you're good. Sometimes you need a little break to get reset a little later on in the match, and that's always good to listen to your corner. I always looked back to the corner, no matter what they said, because I knew they had a different perspective than I did on the mat right there, facing my opponent. So,

Shane Sparks

during your five years

Stephen Neal

in football, you are preparing so much throughout the week. I mean, it's all about statistics and understanding when they line up in this formation to expect this. We have these plays when they're in this personnel. It was Coach Belichick and Dante Scarnecchia came offensive line coach, and the whole coaching staff, they had us so prepared that when you stepped out there, it's like this is just what we practice. And then when that happens, you feel so comfortable, you know what to expect, and you just got to go try to execute.

Shane Sparks

What was it like for you, Stephen? Again, I'm kind of all over the place here, but wrestling, obviously mainly an individual sport. Football, of course, perhaps the greatest team game there is. What was it like being on both sides of that coin? How did you deal with that very different from individual to team.

Stephen Neal

Yeah, that was probably the toughest challenge for me, going from wrestling to football. In wrestling, there's two people on the competition surface, and in football, there's 22 And so, funny story, my first I was started on defense, and then they're like, this guy doesn't know he's doing, so like, you're gonna go to offense, so I went to offense, because at least you know the snap count, what the, but where the ball's going, so they moved me there, and then I studied my playbook, and I knew all the playbook, it's like, okay, on this play I have the T, or else I have the E, you know, the tackle, or the end, if they're there, but then we played the Giants in preseason, and coach told me you're probably not going to play, but just be ready, just in case. And then he said, Neil, you ready to go in there? And I'm like, okay. So I jumped in there, and no one had a T or an E on their shirt, they had numbers, and I'm like, dang it, is this, you know? So I'm looking around, and instead of looking here, you got to look all out, all around, and see what's going on. And so I was playing right tackle the time, and my left or my right to my left, the right guard, his name was Josh Rawlings. I give my stance, I know the play, and I'm like, Who do I have, Josh? And he's like, You got that guy. And so then I just, I maul him, Who do I have? You got him, and he's pointing at him. So, like, I had no idea that team asked, like, because they're moving around, they're jumping, and you got to work with people, and when he was pointing me in the right direction, it really helped me out. It allowed me to show that I could dominate people if I just knew which guy to grab.

Shane Sparks

We'll talk some more football. Going back to college, 1997 you and Kerry McCoy in the NCAA finals, you beat Tali Thompson, who you just talked about, it beat you the year before in that third place match. You beat him in the semifinals to get Kerry McCoy a one point match, think it was three to two. When you think back to that match, what is what is top of mind, and is there a position that you think about from time to time to this day, all these years later,

Stephen Neal

I know I put that in the past, but that definitely helped motivate me later on. I learned, you know, I had a game plan, I was gonna keep it close, and then, and then I had really worked earlier that year at Russell Carey, I lost four to zero, so he rode me for two minutes, and then he got away, and then I dove in at the end, he got a takedown, so it was four zero match, and so I really focused on getting off bottom, and so I worked on it, worked on it, worked on it, and then when I was on bottom, I was gonna get to my feet, hit a standing Granby, and I was so excited, I missed an opportunity to catch him on his back, and so I got an escape, he got an escape, and then I got hit for stalling later on, but, or I got a reversal, two escapes, but looking back, it's just like I got to go out there and I got to compete, and you know, whatever happens, and that 1997 year I went back and I looked at the. The brackets, I think there's 13 to 14 guys who became All-Americans. I think five or six became NCAA finalists. That was a really good year of heavyweight wrestling. If you ever. I know they always talk about this, these. these aren't your grandfather's heavyweights, but back then those guys are pretty freaking solid in 1997 So throws, throw some guys in that, and that bracket, and see, I mean, it's, it's pretty impressive. So,

Shane Sparks

how tough was that loss at that time to deal with?

Stephen Neal

It was pretty tough. I mean, I'd worked really hard. Once again, my coach, Darryl Pope, he was talking to me, he's like, this is the year to win. Everyone thinks you got lucky, it takes fourth of those two forfeits. So, you go in there, you win the national championship, and you know you're going to win the next two years, but this is the year to win it, and he had me believe, and I was going to win it so much that I learned how to do a round off back flip, so if I would have beat McCoy, I would have attempted that, because I mean that's the kind of coach he had, the mindset of like, no, you got to learn this, so when you beat them, so it wasn't like if you beat him, I was going to beat him, and then hit the back flip, and then I never did it. But

Shane Sparks

you've talked about Coach Pope a lot.

Stephen Neal

Yes,

Shane Sparks

during your time at Cal State Bakersfield, is there a conversation or two that was the most impactful? Again, you're going to be 50 years old in October when you look back three decades ago, that just really stand out

Stephen Neal

more than a conversation. What happened to him? So, in 1996 he became the assistant coach of the year. Well, we were informed by the administration that they were going to have to cut his program, cut his position, the funding, and they were going to cut our whole program at that point in time, so he ended up he couldn't survive with a family of two kids on a salary, less salary than he was getting at that moment. So he jumped into the workforce as an elementary school teacher, so he's teaching school, and he would come into the wrestling room to work out with me every single day, and I remember sitting there, and we'd wrestle, and all of a sudden he'd go to the bathroom, and he'd be in there for like five minutes, and then come back, and it's like, what is this guy doing in there? So one day I followed him in there, and he's in the, in the stall, just losing his lunch, and I'm like, Coach, are you okay? And he's like, yeah, I'm fine, he's. I'm like, what's going on? He's like, well, we have a late lunch at the elementary school, and when I come in here, I can't hold it down, so he's coming in, throwing up every day, coming back to bang heads with me, and I mean, that's, I mean, there's no conversation that can let you know how much he, you know, I appreciate him and how much he was working for me. He's like, "I brought you in here, and I'm going to stay here till you're gone. So it would have been tough for me, this NIL thing, to lead Darryl Pope, because all the stuff he did for me.

Shane Sparks

Oh, that's pretty awesome. That is a great story. 1998 you get it done dominating fashion in the national final. What was it like to stand atop the podium as a national champion, as a guy who started wrestling as a freshman in high school at 189 pounds.

Stephen Neal

It was really exciting, all that work paid off, and I was very fortunate. I'd wrestled Trent Hynek from Iowa State at wrestling midlands, and I just knew our styles didn't match up very well. And, man, he ran the gauntlet, he took out a bunch of really good wrestlers. If you look at his bracket, the outside of the bracket, he knocked off Richardson, Benjamin, I think Glee, I mean, he knocked off a bunch of guys to get there, and I was like, that ain't happening tonight, but thank you for doing the hard work for me. So that was, I was very relaxed going into that when I knew I had a really good shot, if I just stayed on my offense and felt very good that night, for sure. Have my family there, and just getting to represent my school, Cal State Bakersfield, and have them on the podium.

Shane Sparks

Anything from that night that you'll always remember, that's just something random, perhaps.

Stephen Neal

Um, I just remember how happy Coach Kerr was. He's, he's passed away, but I know he had some guys in the finals, and he was, he was really nervous, because I think I took him down, I wanted to let him go, because I love that take down, let go, take down, I like doing that, and he's like, "Keep them down, and that's like, man, I, so I just remember, like, Coach, let me loose, man, let me loose, but he was, he was a little nervous, and finally, towards the end, I had to, had to make up some ground towards the end, so he let me, let me play that game. That was about it.

Shane Sparks

You talked about putting some weight on before. How did you get that much better? I mean, again, starting as a freshman high school, like, what were you doing? What, from a weightlifting standpoint, from a technique standpoint, like looking back now, having the, you know, the eye for the sport as you do, you know, what were some things that were just most critical in making big gains

Stephen Neal

for me. The biggest gain I had was there's one film that I watched that helped me tremendously, so when I was in. High school, I didn't understand technique at all. I would just dive in, grab a leg, lay in my belly, and then when the guy circled, I'd come up. I mean, my technique was horrible. I didn't have any technique. I just. I wanted to win, and I would try my best. So I got to college in that redshirt year, Coach Pope gave me a VHS tape, and it was of John Azevedo penetration steps, and he was coaching at Calvary Chapel at the time. He's a former Cal State Bakersfield national champ. So already, then I was like, this is awesome. He's, you know, he's alumni here. And so I'm watching this, and it's about changing levels. Step, you got to step with that front foot, not just hit the knee, hit the knee, trail leg up, you know, be leaning in. Any, I understood why you need to do that, and so I really focused on that, and then I would change levels, I'd penetrate, I keep my head up, the trail leg up, come up, and so many times people shoot in and they stop, and that's what I used to do, and then you're down here in this position that's horrible, so just that alone helped me to understand that, how to take people down and get back up to your feet, because so many times, especially as high school kids, and high schools are way better now, but they think you're shooting in to grab a leg, and it's like, no, you're shooting in to get back up to your feet with a leg, and so just those little things, that technique aspects. We had another coach, Rich Bailey, was so good situationally that I felt like I learned so much what positions I was good at, and where I needed to try to get to, if I didn't have the perfect shot, or a business scramble situation. If I got there, I could have success. So, just those couple things really helped me out a lot.

Shane Sparks

Did things change from you from an approach standpoint once you won a national title heading into your final year?

Stephen Neal

Um, no, I set some crazy goals that I fell short of, but I wanted to pin everybody. I pinned a lot of guys. I didn't want to give up any scores. I gave up one reversal in the Pac-10 finals. I had a bunch of these goals, and then I fell short, but I think because I motivated myself, I was working harder and harder, and I was able to improve. In fact, my senior year, I used to go lift with the track team. Those guys were super strong, the throwers. I'd lifted them at 3o'clock and we had practice at four. So, I would go in there, and my arms are just. I'm just dead, but it's just. I had to go in there and fight and try to have good technique for practice. So, just. I was always highly motivated, and always trying to figure out how I can keep improving.

Shane Sparks

Where'd that come from? Stephen, the self motivation,

Stephen Neal

I think I had some. My dad, he just recently passed away, but he was always encouraging us to just keep improving. And then Darryl Pope, man, that guy, master motivator, and just tells you like it is. And he had a great career of his own. He's a three-time All-American. He lost in the finals to Rico Chiapparelli, and what people call the greatest scramble in the finals of all time. Now, that's that's before this era we're in now, with I don't know what they're doing. It's wild, but it's fun to watch.

Shane Sparks

You mentioned your dad recently passed away. Describe your dad, the relationship you had with him. What'll you miss most about him?

Stephen Neal

Just talking with the. he's. he always had a smile on his face. The guy was six foot seven, that's how tall he was, and so he was odd. He was a misfit in the wrestling world, but he'd be walking around and everyone knew who he was, and he just, he just loved watching his boys compete, whether it's my older brother in swimming and water polo, or my younger brother in football and wrestling, or me and wrestling. He just loved being around it, and the one thing that I've learned from him is he coached us when we were little, but when I had a coach, he was just there to support, and he was there to give positive things, and maybe a little bit of wisdom here and there, but he wasn't trying to be my coach when I already, when I had a different coach, and I think I've tried to take that approach. My son, he's he's wrestling at Colorado Mesa under Mike Mendoza, who's my teammate, and I'd go to this, his tournaments this year, and like, hey, are you gonna sit in this corner? I'm like, I'm not his coach, you are, you do it, but as a redshirt, I sat in his corner because he wanted me to, but I think the biggest thing I learned from him is just enjoy being a dad, you know, and I really do enjoy being a dad with the girls, I don't know anything about volleyball, real easy for me to hand them off, so it's just fun to sit there and watch.

Shane Sparks

Do you have a favorite memory or two with your dad, which was your dad's name? Stephen,

Stephen Neal

my dad's name was Jack. Jack,

Shane Sparks

do you have a favorite memory or two with him in this, you know, sports realm?

Stephen Neal

100% So I told you, told you earlier, in ninth grade, I thought I was like, I was done with wrestling. I thought I was going to prove this kid wrong, and I was wrong, and so I told my dad, like, I think I'm done. He's like, you know what, we don't quit, and I'm like, but, Dad, you don't know what, how hard it is when you're on your back and they're choking you and you're trying to fight off. He's like, well, why don't you just be the other guy? And I was like, that's a good point, if I. Yeah, if I could figure that out, you know, and so from then on, like, he would drag me to all these tournaments, get me up early. Hey, we're going to go over here. He got those old USA Wrestling magazines that had all the tournaments listed, and like, I never wanted to go to tournaments, and he's like, we're going here, we're going there. I just think he loved watching me just fight, because I had no technique early on. I just go out there and he begged coaches, "Show, can you show my son a move? And then probably the other one is my senior year I was in this econ class, and so our econ class all year we sold donuts before school, so we'd have to pick them up, we'd at the donut shop, and then we'd sell them, and then return the trades after school, and it was all to raise money for a camping trip. Well, the camping trip lined up the same week as the Open or Junior Freestyle State tournament. So, the Freestyle State for the Juniors was that same weekend, and so my dad's like, 'Hey, I signed you up, you're gonna go up to Bakersfield to wrestle in this tournament, and I was like, "No, I'm going on this camping trip with my econ class. He's like, "No, you're going to go up to the. so I go up to the tournament and I smoke everybody at 220 because I'm not cutting to 189. And then that allowed me to qualify for junior nationals, and then going to junior nationals, I was able to go and put on a show and beat everyone pretty handily, and I think that decision that he made for me, it really gave me confidence for the rest of my life, and very grateful for that unwilling trip to Bakersfield that I took, and yeah, it changed my life for sure.

Shane Sparks

Well, sympathies to you and your family, and the passing of your dad sounds like a great guy.

Stephen Neal

He's a great guy. Yep, for sure.

Shane Sparks

Your final year at Cal State Bakersfield, of course. The internet, I don't even know if it really existed barely back in 1999 Obviously, technology was nothing like it is today. What was the first thing that you thought of when you saw Brock Lesnar,

Stephen Neal

I was like, this guy is freaking huge, he was a monster, because I think we went to National Duels, that I can't remember where it was at, but we didn't wrestle Minnesota, or yeah, we got knocked off pretty early, and then this guy's beating guys and flexing and doing all this stuff, I'm like, this guy's pretty big, but I think I can still get him. But yeah, he was a big guy, and we, like I said, we didn't go to a lot of tournaments with Minnesota, so we just, you'd see certain things. I think the National Duels might have been the only tournament where I saw him in person.

Shane Sparks

What did he feel like?

Stephen Neal

Well, the only position I got to where we were kind of, because we didn't walk up very much, he had his hand down, I was just standing there, but I got him cracked down, and I was trying to get that leg up here, and when I let go, he was able to get his hips out, and that was kind of the only position we had where the strength position, so he's definitely strong there. We didn't really get anywhere else of strength. He was behind me, but I was playing the game of like hopefully I get a stall call, because we each got hit, and then give me a little bit, so I wasn't trying to get away, I was just trying to get to my feet and stay there. And then when it got about 40 seconds, I'm like, I got stuck messing around, and I was able to get out, but we didn't really, we didn't really wrestle, which, that's the one thing I have regret. Like, I wish we would have gone out there and wrestled instead of just kind of played this cat and mouse game, because almost every other match I had my whole life, we're out there, I was out there just scrapping in this, and I didn't do that, and I probably gave them, I gave them a lot of respect, because you do that and you get caught one time, it could be over, and I'm like, I don't want that to be the end of my career. So,

Shane Sparks

so many great heavyweights, mid to late 90s, we've talked about these names over the years, you meet these guys, you have conversations with them, you get to know any of them, or not too many,

Stephen Neal

for the most part. Got to meet all of them. Brock was the only guy, because I was getting done, and he kind of showed up late to the party. But Bruce Baumgartnertner, he did probably one of the most cool things. He had a heavyweight camp. Have you heard about this?

Shane Sparks

Yes. Yep.

Stephen Neal

Okay, so in his heavyweight camp, if you were pretty much an All-American or one of the top guys, he would come up and he's like, "Hey, you're gonna come to my camp, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna fly you in, I'm gonna give you this much money, and you're like, "Okay, this is the greatest heavyweight of all time. And so it might have been like, "You're coming for the whole week, I'm gonna give you $500 or $200 or 800 whatever it may have been at the time, and Tolly Thompson, Kerry McCoy, Aaron Richardson, like all these guys are there, and we're all working out, and we're having so much fun with these high school kids. I'm talking about 400 heavyweights, 400 Rulan's there, Tom Erikson's there, Ghaffari is there, every like every heavyweight is there, and it. Just a great week every single year, right around July 4. So it was, it was fun to get to meet everyone, and Brian Keck, he's rest in peace, he was there, lot a lot of fun, lot of fun times with all the heavyweights.

Shane Sparks

Where is your Dan Hodge trophy?

Stephen Neal

There's this little in between room I have it in my garages, and I think I had some broken off arms, and I got the Wade Schalles one in there too. So,

Shane Sparks

wrestling accolades, Stephen, yeah, because you mentioned the Schalles Award for the most pins. What you got a couple wall charts, the Hodge Trophy, four-time conference champ, your 1999 World Gold Medal for from a wrestling standpoint, which one, for whatever reason, means the most.

Stephen Neal

One thing that was kind of cool to me is the our Pac-10 team championship trophy my freshman year, so you know, going to an inner city school like San Diego High School, I got to participate in a lot of sports because we didn't have - there's no one else doing it, and so we didn't have any team success. And going into Bakersfield in 1996 they had never won the Pac-10 Championship before. It was in Bakersfield, and we set the record on the most amount of points ever scored in the Pac-10 championship qualified nine, and then we took third at the NCAA tournament, so that year is just so special to me, because that was the first time I experienced success with a team, and that those trophies mean, means so much. Third place team trophy, I mean, that's that's pretty cool for the, I mean, we're like the bad news, but we had to make our own gear. Our assistant coach, Rich Bailey, made sweatshirts that said Bakersfield Wrestling and shorts. We had nothing that said Bakersfield Wrestling. He had to make it, and then we had to buy it from him. It was just, yeah, we had to buy our own rings for that. It was, yeah, wild times.

Shane Sparks

1999 great year for you. You win a senior level world title. Had you wrestled, you couldn't wrestle too much freestyle. You mentioned, you know, junior nationals winning that title, but you didn't wrestle a ton. It's not like you didn't start wrestling through a freshman high school. What was it about freestyle that obviously you're super athletic. Did you, did you anticipate that kind of success?

Stephen Neal

Well, I'd, I went on the national level for the age group, so back then it was called Espoir, was I think under 20, and then university was under 23 so I was age group champion for those, and the rules are so much different back then, and three points feet to back, five points if his feet to back with amplitude, one point takedowns, two point, you remember all those rules, and I think it was only one gut wren, I mean, they kept changing the rules here and there, leg lace, if you went hand to hand was one point, so there's a lot of it was hard for referees, I really like the rule sets now, but I had a lot of success in the freestyle, and then I'd go to the U. S. Open. It was always in Jax Forrests, and then we would always just drive from Bakersfield to Vegas, and so I competed quite a bit in freestyle, and actually it was really good for my skill set, because as someone changing levels, hitting double legs, running through, I felt like I could do fairly well, and I'm not sure if I anticipated having success that early, but I was able to have a good run. I beat McCoy in the semifinals, and then I was able to beat Tom Erikson in the finals, and then that put me in the driver's seat for the World Team Trials, which I won two out of three against Kerry up in Seattle. And then, if I could beat these guys, I like I said, I always thought the Americans were the best in the world. I figured I could beat anyone else, and I think my conditioning from the college season really helped me. Where, when I was down, I could still keep pushing and driving, and I was able to outlast the Cuban in the pack, the Pan American Games, and then the Russian in the world finals.

Shane Sparks

What was most rewarding winning a world title?

Stephen Neal

I think the one, the moment that comes back to me is, I think I was losing three to one in the second period. In the first period, they had a little break, and so Darryl Pope, my guy, he's my coach, he's there, and he's my corner guy, and he's like, man, I'm so proud of you, and you've come this far, who would have thought you'd be in the world finals, and so I'm, and he's the master manipulator, so I'm sitting here thinking, like, does he think I'm gonna lose, like, what, so I'm, my wheels are spinning, and then I was able to turn it on and come through and win, and then as soon as I win, I, we had been watching the last couple days, like, hey, what celebration are you going to do when you win, and so I'm like, I think I'm going to tear the iron curtain, so I'm doing this, and then I'm jumping, and then he tackles me, because. Yes, we were watching, and some other house, Bulgaria, some guy placed third, and his coach ran out, tackled them, roughed up his hair, and then ran off, and so he's like, that's what I'm gonna do, and then he said the moment caught up with them, and he just, he just did it, and so that, like, that just that exchange right there was something special for someone who sacrificed so much for me, and got me to that place

Shane Sparks

in 2000 Olympic trials? Then I mean, you and Kerry McCarrey, Kerry McCoy had some just bangers of matches. I mean, two Hall of Famers, fantastic careers. When you reflect on falling a little bit short, what stands out?

Stephen Neal

Well, I'd wrestle carry so many times, and man, he was so good. The couple times I had beat him, he had, he had come out to attack me, and I was able to counter him and get my offense going. And then he never really was able to turn me on top, but he figured out that if he tweaked his leg laces a little bit, he had a good opportunity to turn me, and so when that happened in 96 or in 2000 I thought I felt confident that position, and so did he, and he was able to finish that, those leg laces, and then I tell you, when you're fighting those leg laces, you're like, I refuse to go, and then everything starts going anyways, man, that's tough. So I think he just really focused on my weaknesses that I didn't even know I had, and he was able to come through. So I have nothing but respect for Kerry. I love him. He made me a better wrestler, and I hope I made him a better wrestler. So that's kind of the relationship we have,

Shane Sparks

how in your career did you deal with the setbacks? I mean, as successful as you have been, as successful as you were, what were what were some of the darkest times, and how did you persevere?

Stephen Neal

Well, that night in Dallas, man, I went to a buddy, well, I went to his house, Marlon, and he was living next to time, so I went over to this house, and we're sitting there, and I just. I couldn't believe all these dreams were just gonna come crashing down, and I know it's cliche to say, but this is what actually happened. I stood up on, I stayed up all night, and then the sun came up, just like it always does, and it's like, you know what, the sun's gonna come up, I can't be stuck in this past, and so I took about a week. I went away from wrestling. I went camping over there with some of my teammates, and then it's like, all right, let's move on. Let's, let's get, let's get them next year. And that didn't happen either, but I think God had a different plan for me, and fortune of that other plan.

Shane Sparks

What role does faith play in your wrestling or football, what role did it play?

Stephen Neal

It's a huge part of my life. I grew up in the Christian church. My parents were missionaries. I went to the Philippines for a couple years through, you know, my parents had a role at the, at the center in the Philippines, and it was always a big part of my faith. When I went to college, it was a little bit hard. It was a struggle. The people I were around weren't the people I was around here, and so I kind of strayed from my faith. I never stopped believing. I stopped doing the things I knew I should have done. And then, even in the NFL, I had the chances to kind of get my life back. But it wasn't till the very end of the NFL career that I just, I just gave up, and just gave it all to God. Because when your identity is in something, like it was for me in wrestling, and then that's taken away, like to be an Olympian, man, that was a hard time. And then in football, I knew I'm way close to the end, and I am to the beginning, and I just got to get my identity in something that will never leave me or forsake me. And to be honest, if your identity is all in your family. There could be a bus accident, and they're all gone too. So, the one thing you can ever take away from someone is their faith. And I, my faith is in Jesus Christ, and I'm just so thankful. And I share with people, whoever listen, you know what God has done for me in my life. And this whole football transition thing, that's 100% God. There's no way I could have manufactured it on my own, for sure.

Shane Sparks

After those Olympic trials in 2000 that was the end, correct? Wrestling wise,

Stephen Neal

no. I went again in 2001 Okay, I lost to carry two out of three in Cincinnati, Ohio. Yeah, Cincinnati with the trials there, and that was that was crazy too, because whoever won that was going to wrestle in New York City in 2001 chips, and then 911 happened, and ended that year, but yeah, so as soon as I lost there, are you okay if I transition in the NFL that story?

Shane Sparks

Oh, for sure, absolutely.

Stephen Neal

Okay, so it's night, it's 2001 I just lost at the trials. It's about time from Bruce Baumgartner's camp, and so I go there, and I promised my wife or my girlfriend the time that I'd come back for her birthday. I worked in with Bruce, her birthday is July 5, so I was going to leave to be back there. Her, because I was always gone on her birthday, and it's about the third of July, and Matt Ghaffari, our friend Matt Ghaffari, the our favorite Iranian, he comes in, he's like, "Hey, Steve, I know an agent in Cleveland. I'm like, "Okay. He's like, "I think he can help you out to get to the NFL. You want to talk to him? So I'm okay. So I call on the pay phone, I call him up, and I talk to him, and he's like, "Hey, were you that heavyweight wearing blue in 1998? Because it was in Cleveland, and I said, "Yes. He said, "I saw you. I think he might have a shot. Why don't you come to Cleveland to my house on July 4, and then I'll take you to Columbus, and you can train with a bunch of guys, and then they can see if you have what it takes athletically. So we talked to Bruce. We got his permission to leave on July 4. We left early from camp, and he said, "You got to promise to come back later and make up the days, because Bruce is really tight. He's good with contracts. So I leave. I have to call my wife or my girlfriend and say, "Hey, I'm gonna miss your birthday again, but I have this opportunity, so I go and I meet this agent named Neil Cornrich, and I didn't know at the time, but his client was Bill Belichick, and so he sends me to Ohio State, and I'm training with all these guys, they're Ohio State guys, I don't have any football cleats because I came from wrestling camp, and the first guy I meet has the same size shoe as I do, Mike Vrabel, so he gives me a pair of shoes out of his trunk and I'm hanging with him and his wife and his kids, and we're, we're running around through Columbus, and so I stay there for a week, I fly to New England, they work me out, and I did tight end drills, defensive line drills, and then they said, "Hey, we like your athleticism, you got to come to camp in two weeks, and if you pass the conditioning test, we'll let you in the camp. And so I go home, I get as much stuff as I can, I show up, and the conditioning test for wrestler is a piece of cake. So I get that done, and then I'm in training camp, and just what a whirlwind of things that happened for me to get there. Ghaffari knows the guy, this guy is Coach Belichick's agent, calls him up for a favor of me, work this guy out. I mean, all these things kind of. there's no way I could have planned it, so that's why it's 100% all God. Just 2001

Shane Sparks

Stephen, you lose to Kerry McCoy, and then does like football enter your mind? You didn't play college football, I mean, when did that, when was the genesis of. I think I might want to play in the NFL, like, where does that come from?

Stephen Neal

So I always want to play in the NFL. I think if you go back and you watch, there's some videos of me in 1999 they interview me like ESPN after, and I'm. I think Blade might have been like, do you want to play in the NFL, and I'm like, absolutely, but I got to try to win Olympic gold first, and so when I had lost, I'm thinking like, I still got to go back, I got to win that gold, and then try football, but I wanted to keep those options open, and I, there's no way I could have pursued and got that opportunity through Ghaffari by myself, it was just he met this guy hanging out in Cleveland, and yeah, I just never. I always, I always thought I could. I just needed an opportunity to prove myself, and I got that opportunity with the Patriots.

Shane Sparks

So, 2001 with the Patriots, that was Drew Bledsoe, right? Drew Bledsoe was the quarter, the starting quarterback at that time, of course, by the end of the season, 2002 technically they win the Super Bowl, beating Kurt Warner and the Rams. What do you remember from showing up at Patriots camp, those early workouts? Like, there's levels to everything. I mean, when did you realize, like, holy smokes, this is this is different.

Stephen Neal

Yeah, so I showed up there, and I was super excited, and I go to the trainer, and they gave me my clothes, and I go back to the trainer. I'm like, are the equipment gone? I'm like, hey, when I was in high school, we had the hip pads and the butt pads. He's like, we don't wear those here, we don't. I'm like, okay, I just thought I'd ask the girdle. So then you get out there and you're standing around, they put you in. I could do good on the one-on-ones, because as a wrestler, one on one is what we do, you know. But then when it came to the team stuff, I was lost, you know. I'm just running around, I don't know who to hit, I'm just trying to hit somebody, and defensively I didn't know what was going on. I was trying to go through the gap in the defense that the Patriots run, it's a two gap, not a one gap system. So, you run through this way, the running back cuts off that, and my responsibility, I wasn't doing, and so I didn't really get that. I could understand what to do when they tell me they give you calls, go to the right, okay, I'll do that, but I just didn't, I didn't fathom the whole defense and have that experience, then I moved to offense, I could block the guys one on one, but in the team thing it was just, it was just tough, I couldn't do the team stuff, and then seeing other people when I first got there, you, I was not allowed to block for Drew, let's, I was not allowed, but the other guys, Brady, so is Brady, and the guy, Michael Bishop, the. Are the guys I could block for, because Brady was third and Michael Bishop was fourth, and they were kind of fighting for third and fourth. Bishop was a Kansas State option quarterback.

Shane Sparks

Yes.

Stephen Neal

So I was there, and yeah, just got to meet these guys, and Troy Brown was so cool. He is a big wrestling guy, because he went to Ohio wrestling school. I can't remember which one it is, because there's, there's two or three, but all his best friends in high school were all wrestlers, and Luke Fickell - he's the coach at

Shane Sparks

Wisconsin, big wrestling guy, huge wrestling guy. He was,

Stephen Neal

yeah, him and Troy Brown are tight, you know, and in fact he's like, oh, Luke Fickell wrestled Kerry McCoy. One time I saw him because he's Russell McCoy in a duel, me, he was too tired from football because he's a football shape, but yeah, no, I just, it was, it was so much fun being around all those guys, and then in the third, after the third game, they said, 'Hey, Steve, bring your, bring your playbook, come up to the office, and so I'm like, 'Oh, here goes, you know, so you show up there and they said, Steve, we like everything about you except for one thing, and I'm like, what's that? Like, you don't know what you're doing out there, and it was, it was a fair session, you know, I didn't know how to play football, I don't, but they said, we want to bring you back in the off season and teach you how to play, so I said, man, that's awesome, I appreciate this opportunity, it's been so much fun putting gear back on since I hadn't done for five years, and so I went home, didn't know if I get another shot or not. My agent called and said, don't give up on this dream, you have a lot of potential, but as far as right now, just stick with wrestling. And then a few days later, he called back and said, hey, the Eagles want to pick you up and put you on the practice squad, and reflection, a year before Greg Strobel, Lehigh coach, God rest his soul, he put me on the phone with a guy named Chuck Bednarik. Have you ever heard that, heard that name? Yes, yep, the last two-way player, his fingers were all like this.

Shane Sparks

Okay,

Stephen Neal

he hit Frank Gifford back in the day, I talked to him, and he's like, "Man, I think you could be a two-way player. Would you ever want to play football? And I was like, "Heck yeah. And so he said, "I'm going to tell the Eagles to look for you. So when I got cut by the Patriots on the waiver wire, the Eagles saw that, and they picked me up. And then I was on the Eagles for week one to week 12 or 13. So when 911 happened, I was actually in Philadelphia on that day, and I was with, I was with the Eagles, Andy Reid, Donovan McNabb, that whole great team. I was, I was there with them too. And then I was training with Roger Reina and the Penn wrestling team. After practice, I'd go shoot over there and wrestle with those guys, and then go home. And I just, like I said, my experience was so awesome, I had no idea if it was going to last one day, one week, a year, 10 years, and then we're at a Christmas party at Roger Reina's house, and I get a call from my agent, 'Hey, Steve, the Patriots want you to go back up to New England. 'Okay, I don't know if I want to go, they're super nice down here, they're really nice down here, and I get to wrestle, and he's like, you don't understand, you got to go up there. So I pack up my car, I drive up there, and they make the playoffs, and they had that run, they go play in the Super Bowl, and they win. I'm staying on the sidelines just watching. I wasn't good enough to play, but I was on the team practicing, and just a wild ride in 2001

Shane Sparks

What are the biggest similarities and the biggest differences between Bill Belichick and Andy Reid,

Stephen Neal

I would say the preparation those guys are so prepared, and then I would say the biggest difference is just how they communicate. Andy Reid is so positive, and Coach Belichick, he's gonna, he'll burn you, man. Like, what are you? I mean, he would get after Tom Brady all the time, and you're like, if he can get after Tom like this, he could say whatever he wants to me. So, but I don't think it's, it's out of meanness. It's just like, man, I'm working so hard to prepare you guys, and you don't follow through, and that's what I've learned as a coach, too. You plan these practices, you teach these positions that they're struggling at, then they get out there and they continue to struggle at the positions you're working on. It's like, are you not taking what we're doing in practice and taking it out to competition? And so I tell our guys, there's there's two different sides of coaching: there's a reactive coach and a proactive coach, and the proactive coach doesn't say too much in the corner, because he's already prepared you. You look at Cael ain't talking the corner, he's just sitting there, and he could focus on the referee. And then you have the reactive coach, where this kid's not doing anything he should be doing, and maybe that's because you didn't prepare him. And so we try to tell our kids, follow the instructions we're giving you, so we don't have to be yelling the whole time at you to do the right thing, because we're trying to teach you to do the right thing, and then we could focus on the match management and the little nuance strategies, and not like pick your head up, cover his head, slide down, you know, they're just the basics, it's like you should already have those memorized, you know, so sorry, I got off track there, I.

Shane Sparks

That's okay. What was it like blocking for Tom Brady? What kind of teammate was he? You got a story or two that stands out? What was that like?

Stephen Neal

It was awesome. So, the first time I got into the huddle, I had my doubts, like I'm sitting there and I had some injuries, and I get into the into the huddle, we're playing Green Bay, and I look around, and as a wrestler you can kind of look into the eyes of your opponents and you know this guy's nervous or this guy's you know he doesn't believe I should be here and I looked around all those guys they had confidence in me so I went up there and had confidence too and had a really good game but before halftime I'd blown out both shoulders so it was a long time for me to get kind of into the starting lineup and stay there. First, I had to learn how to get through it, and then next I had to get my body ready for the sport of football, but as far as Tom goes, when I first started playing as an offensive line, that's a little bit different, so I don't really look at the play, I'm looking at the defenders, and I listen to the crowd, and so you're blocking, all of a sudden you hear like, ooh, and it's like, oh, there must be a pass, so you're looking like, where is it going, or it's a sigh, like, oh, and it's like, oh shoot, what happened, and so you look back and you see Tom laying there on the ground, it's like, oh, he got sacked. So, as a wrestler, I want to help my teammates, so I'd run over there and I'd help pick him up. And so, for about a week or two, he was like, "Get off me, and I'm like, "What's going? He thought that I was the one giving up all the sacks, and so a few weeks later, he's like, "Hey, Steve, I'm sorry, that guy, I thought you were, but I watched a film. You're just trying to help me out, because you're trying to be a good teammate. So, he's a competitive guy, really nice. I was with him the first 10 years, and he was trying to get better, like all of us. And it was really cool to see how good he got, because he was third string when I first got there, and he worked so hard and got to the point where greatest of all time,

Shane Sparks

absolutely. What made him, what made him tick?

Stephen Neal

He just wanted to be prepared. So, I mean, we watch film after film after film, and then he's like, 'Hey, old line, I want a special meeting. And so he wanted to know, how do we see this defense, and how he sees the defense. I want that to be the same thing with the wide receivers. You get to that level, and if the wide receiver knows what coverage it is, because Tom's going to know what coverage it is, even if they're, they're hiding it, then they can do the route he's expecting. And so early on, he's doing all these hand checks to the receivers, and then towards the end he got so good that he trained those receivers to see how he saw, and that's why you have the receivers that have those special connections with them, like the Gronk, the Edelman, these guys, they knew exactly how Tom ticked and how he thought, and they could just hit these plays that, man, how did you know that was going to be there, but they just saw everything the same way, and that's what he's always trying to get the offensive line, because you have these certain defenses where we should treat this guy, he's a linebacker, but he's, he's a defensive lineman, we can't have a running back block in him, so you have to adjust everything, and that's why he was really mad when they changed the numbering system, because if you're a linebacker and you could be number nine, that's that's a defensive back number, you can't, you know, so just it's more confusing for other people, but definitely probably one of the most prepared people I know, and that's why he was able to do so well. And I think the other thing is, he really knew his strengths and weaknesses, his strengths were in his shoulder and his mind, and so he has to keep this healthy and this good, and he was able to do that, and not use his legs, which were not his strength, to try to escape everything. And if the journey is over, throw it out of bounds, lay down. We got second down, and if it's third down, it's better to punt than throw a pick six. Let's trust the trusted defense and special teams, ultimate team player, and great leader.

Shane Sparks

Yeah, you talk about his legs. I think about the combine video, right? I mean, the combine video, I mean, it's. it's just remarkable what he did. You mentioned Belichick. You get a little fiery. Was there a time or two way late in you that you remember?

Stephen Neal

Not too much into me. It was mostly we had one guy, Matt Light. He was always doing some pranks, and one time all the offensive line had these sprints, and we're like, what happened, and he had a mouse, and it was electric, so you click it, and I would shake it, and I guess he knocked over his drink, and it got all this notes and everything messed up, so he made us pay. The only thing he'd get mad at me for is when I first got there, I had to spr. I had to show them, you know, what I could do. So I would sprint super hard, go down and back, and all the offensive line would get mad at me because they thought I was showing them up, and I was like, "I'm not showing you up, I'm just trying to show what I can do. And then toward the end, I was established there, and he, all he still wanted me to sprint down and back to try to show people up, but you kind of, once you get part of that O-line group, you got to stay together. So, Logan Mankins and I could both run really good. Logan, Steve, you better be the first ones on this, you know, he's trying to motivate, but we were trying to hang with everyone, so that's probably the most upset he got with me. Is there

Shane Sparks

who is your best teammate on the gridiron?

Stephen Neal

Best teammate, oh Matt's hard one to say. Most fun, definitely is Matt Light Wright Tackle. That was kind of my guy, because we're out, we're out there together, and I had three good ones, Nick Kaczur, this Canadian guy, man, we could, we could do some damage blocking, he was a hockey guy, so his legs were like massive, and then I was really good with my hands, and I could move my feet good, and so we had a double team, we'd both get into him, he would displace them, and as soon as the guy came up, man, I would just start pounding the legs. We could double team guys like 10 feet, you know, 10 yards back, and so he was a lot of fun to play with. But, like I said, Dan Koppen at center, awesome guy, Russ Hochstein, he was the guy whenever I got hurt, filled in or filled in for anybody. We had some really good guys in there, and we were interchangeable, so someone went down, the other person filled in, and we could all still do a great job. So, our coach, Dante Scarnecchia, he worked so hard at making sure we all did the same things and had the timing, so that if someone went down, we could fill in and not skip the. I

Shane Sparks

want to give you the floor, Stephen, selling wrestling to football coaches and football players, the obvious perfect marriage, correct? You got the floor.

Stephen Neal

Oh man, I don't understand how football coaches can't understand this, but in wrestling you put your hands on someone for the entire practice, you're here, you're pulling, you're pushing, you're doing all this stuff for 3040, 50 minutes in football, you have your hands on a human being for maybe two minutes for entire practice, you push bags, you run around, you punch air, but your hands are on a human being for maybe two minutes, and that's being generous, so if you have five practices a week and you have two minutes times five, that's 10 minutes a week of your hands on someone. If you have 30 minutes of hands on and wrestling times five, that's 150 I mean, just compounding, like I was so good and pass blocking because I had put my hands on someone and they'd start to spin, and I could feel it, I could move my feet, I could, I could beat them where they were going, because I had that feel from the sport of wrestling. Wrestling, you have to change levels, get your head underneath someone, and come up for a shot. In football, it's called pad level. You have to have the pad level low to get underneath someone. I mean, all these things help out so much in the sport of football. If you're, if you're trying to tackle someone, well, that's called a double leg or a single leg. I can just hold on to one leg and I got 10 teammates come to help me. I mean, there's so many things in wrestling - the mindset, never giving it up, keep fighting, all that stuff is just. it's so perfect for football, but you just. you know, you push away, they push back in one direction, you know? You wrestle someone, they go wherever they want to go, and you can feel it, and I think it's dumb not having people wrestle if they're not doing some other sport, going to wrestling, whether you compete or not, just go in there for practice, and you'll get better.

Shane Sparks

What are your favorite Super Bowl memories?

Stephen Neal

Favorite Super Bowl memories. Oh, I tell you, let's see that very first one, I wasn't playing, but when Adam Vinatieri made that kick, it was unbelievable. There was another interception before that where Ty Law caught it, he ran all the way down there, it was a penalty, he had to come back, but we were just all running down the side, so excited, and then playing against the Eagles, you're sitting there, you're super nervous, and Donovan McNabb is this great quarterback, but he is not managing the time very well, and then we get the ball back, and I think Rodney Harrison might have intercepted the ball or something, and just so many good memories, and then, and then when I got done playing football, that Atlanta Super Bowl, unbelievable, Julian Edelman, he made that catch, that I mean, I don't know how the heck he made that, and just so proud of these guys, and Julian was just like he was maybe a two year player by the time I retired, Gronkowski was one year, he was just a rookie, and just to see the growth that these guys had, man, just so proud of them, and like I said, the first time with Julian Edelman, we're sitting there, we're playing a preseason game, he was a quarterback at Kent State, and they have him as a punt returner, and so we're getting ready, we're going out there to play offense, and this little guy just takes it to the house, and it's like, man, now we can just go sit down again, this is awesome, but just the growth he had, and I. A, so many good memories

Shane Sparks

when you're on the field of the confetti falls. I mean, how do you describe that?

Stephen Neal

Oh man, it's so much fun. I mean, in wrestling you work so hard and you have these goals, but they don't, they don't rely on as many people as football, and in football the cool thing is everybody gets Super Bowl ring, so you got the practice squad players, you have the trainers, they get the people out there, the coaches, and that's the one thing I wish. I don't know how they could fix it in wrestling, but when you win the Olympic championships, your coach, he helped you win that thing, and you know he's proud of that medal, but he doesn't get a medal, your training partner, he doesn't get a medal, but in football everyone gets that ring, and I think that's that's something that's different than the sport of wrestling, and it's pretty darn cool. And I tell you what, you've been through, you've been through a coffee grinder, a meat grinder the whole season, and the fact that it's over, you're just like, thank goodness I can let my body heal for about a month, and then I have to start all over again.

Shane Sparks

You've had a remarkable journey. If you had to do it all over again, and you had to do a thing or two different, what would you have done different?

Stephen Neal

I think the one thing I probably would have done is I would have probably watched more film, and in college for wrestling, and then also watch more film internationally. I wasn't really big into that film study, because my thought, because Coach Kurt, my coach, he's, he was pretty tough, he was like a J Rob guy, you go out there and you do what you do, it's like, okay, and so I didn't really think about other people's stuff, and then a football, the whole thing, everything you're doing is watching film on the other teams and trying to get the best strategy, maybe just slamming through it, but maybe there's another easier way, and so I probably, I probably watch more film, and then the other thing is, I would, I would have invested more in my faith, and that's not to have more success or less success, but I just, I could have done that, and I didn't. I see these kids now being so proud of their faith, and I'm so happy for them, because that's such a big part of who they are as a person, their identity. And I think in sharing that with others, it's, it's, it's really positive to help other people out as well.

Shane Sparks

You bet, so many successes on the wrestling on the gridiron, if you could relive one day in sports, and you've had a lot of great days, but you got to relive one day, what day would you want to relive?

Stephen Neal

Oh man, maybe that, uh, that Super Bowl in Jacksonville, I had, I had a lot of awesome people around, my coach Kerr, Coach Pope, my weightlifting coach, Danny Castaneda, my parents, my wife, my in-laws, I mean, everyone is there, you know. And then that was kind of what made it kind of so special. We all got to go to the after party and kind of hang out, and I can't remember Snoop Dogg's playing. They had all these people playing. It was just so much fun. I think got a picture somewhere. My brother's not all holding the trophy. It was just a lot of fun to have all the people there, you know. The World Championships, I just. I mean, I had the USA team, and I had Coach Pope with me, but just that's probably the one place where I had the most people with me that day that was so special to me, that was that was a lot of fun that day.

Shane Sparks

Where did you meet your wife?

Stephen Neal

She was a softball player at Cal State Bakersfield.

Shane Sparks

You remember the first date with her?

Stephen Neal

I remember the first time we met, we weren't trying to hook up or anything, we just talking, and then and then we were both in a square dance in gymnastics class together, we were both PE majors, so then we started talking, and then can't remember our first date, but yeah, we were just always at Cal State, and you know, just started talking to each other, and it was great to date an athlete, because she had things to do, and I had things to do, and we understood the, I mean, that's that's a tough time, and not say like she wasn't a priority or I wasn't a priority, but our priority was in our sport, and I think that was very healthy for us early on, and really good, great best friend, and she's also my wife,

Shane Sparks

what's her name?

Stephen Neal

Jodee,

Shane Sparks

Jodee, what's. what's the coolest thing about Jodee?

Stephen Neal

Coolest thing is, I got to calm her down. She gets really excited about these, like, she'll be getting into the kids, so I'm like, I don't know if we're bad cop, bad cop, but I'm kind of good cop sometimes, which is great. So, yeah, she's. we're, we're like the same person, we just, we do everything together. I think the job we've had the last 10 years is we're Netflix content consumers, we just don't get paid, we just sit and watch Netflix shows, and we just like spend a lot of time together.

Shane Sparks

You gotta, you got a couple favorite Netflix shows that you've seen recently.

Stephen Neal

Oh, there's one. It's a little bit older. I came here, was it? Was the one where JFK, the assassination, that it's at 1122 63 or something? It's pretty interesting that there's a. it's like a time travel element, and this guy's to go through, and don't want to ruin the whole show, but think it's 11.22.63. It's that day, month, day, and year. So that's that's a really good one. We just started all that Yellowstone stuff. They just popped out.

Shane Sparks

Okay,

Stephen Neal

spin-offs, Dutton Ranch, and yeah. So trying to think one thing, I wasn't thinking about talking about today. Yeah, you ever see the

Shane Sparks

woman, not the one that I watched a couple weeks ago, and I know it's been out for a while, but the one on the 1980 hockey team, did you watch that one?

Stephen Neal

I've seen Miracle Nice. I have seen documentary, that one's good. The

Shane Sparks

documentary on Netflix, 1980 hockey team is one of the best I've seen. Another one, Stephen, I watched it a year ago. It was on the Thunderbirds, the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds, and the formations, and the team, and making that team, and the air shows fascinating. I mean, fascinating.

Stephen Neal

Okay, so

Shane Sparks

yeah, Netflix is great. If

Stephen Neal

I was gonna say, I like those untold story ones too. Those are really cool. They had, like, the some craziness of sports. There's the guy that the trashers that was at New Jersey, Connecticut Trashers, the guy who he was a mobster, bought a team for his teenage son, and he's running. And then there's another guy who was like, need first weed or something. This guy was like a drug deal and race car driver, like some of these things you're like, how the heck are they able to keep it together? So I enjoy the sports things, some of the fun ones on the side, but yeah, there's so much good content.

Shane Sparks

There is, I just watched one, finished watching the one on Hulk Hogan, that was pretty good. Oh,

Stephen Neal

I gotta see that. Yeah, it's

Shane Sparks

good. It's good. Hey, speaking of those Super Bowl rings, where do you keep those?

Stephen Neal

There's some boxes. I gotta. oh, so I go to high schools and I'll share my faith, and then I got them on this little rope.

Shane Sparks

Oh, there they are, the three Super Bowl rings.

Stephen Neal

Yeah, so can't really see very good.

Shane Sparks

Oh, those are cool. Wow,

Stephen Neal

that's three. One, this one has two, this one has one. Troy is the first one, and then this is when we lost the Giants. So, there's no trouble. I wanted to

Shane Sparks

ask you about that, Stephen. You were on that team that was undefeated. You lose to the Giants. I mean, that was, that was an incredible season for you guys, that game. I mean, that was the, that was the David Tyree catch, right up against his helmet.

Stephen Neal

Yep,

Shane Sparks

right. What was it? Can you, can you put into words the disappointment of not finishing the job? What was that locker room like?

Stephen Neal

That was tough, because we had a bunch of guys that had success, and then you had a few people, you had Wes Welker, Randy Moss, Junior Seau, and there were others, but they all came, they're big-time names, they came to win a Super Bowl, and it was just tough, like we most of the guys that already won Super Bowls, and then you're there, you should win from the first play of that game. It was going to be a rough game, because we had a double screen and I was on the right hand side, and I get out on the screen and there's like no one to block, but there was so much pressure on the left side, Brady couldn't throw it to Kevin Faulk, and if he makes that completion, I'm talking like, usually on a screen, there's like people right here to block, there was no one there, I would, I was, I would have ran like 30 yards to hit at safety, it just, it just wasn't our day that day, and in reflection, I mean, it wasn't the Rams day that day when we beat them the first time, so not to say that it was fair, but it is what it is. The toughest part, though, like I said, is letting down the Junior Seau the Wes Welker, the Randy Moss. I mean, that's that's that's who I felt the bad, the worst for. And in the tough thing for me is my that whole season I was battling shoulder injury, and then right before halftime I my right knee gets taken out, and they thought it was the ACL, and so, like, you're done, and I'm like, I don't know, I think I'm good, but it was just, it was the MCL, but I couldn't, I mean, it was, I couldn't do anything, and so I'm sitting there watching, and it was just, it was just tough, because we scored, then they scored, and then we had the ball, and just. Couldn't, couldn't finish it out, but definitely tough.

Shane Sparks

What was Moss like?

Stephen Neal

Randy, oh man, he was awesome. And Corey Dillon, we had a guy Corey Dillon, he was a running back from the Bengals, and everyone's like, oh, they're so mad, they're this in. I kind of figure like if your team is winning and like they're happy and it's not because the team's winning, but if your team's not winning, let me help us win, let me be the number one option, because I'm that good. I mean, he was so. I mean, he did things I never seen anyone do. He would just run down the field, and he would look back, and then at the very last second catch it like this, and it's like, because usually everyone puts their hands out, then they grab their arm and they drop it, and he's just special, he didn't look like he's friend, but that guy was rolling down the down the field, and he studied so much film, real professional, but yeah, like I said, having those guys on the team, they love being part of the team, they loved, you know, just being the Patriot way, so to speak, and it was awesome to be teammates with them, a lot of respect for him, and also Corey Dillon, so much fun with Corey Dillon, what a, what a beast,

Shane Sparks

and you guys with Corey Dillon, you guys set the at that time anyways, and maybe it still holds true, but that was the single season record for the Patriots for a running back,

Stephen Neal

I guess. I say we're just, we're starting the next play, but that guy would run and just truck people, and it's so much fun to block for him. I like to block for anybody, but yeah, he was just going to be going down the field, chugging people, you know, just running over people, and if I could catch up, I'm going to hit someone too. It was, yeah. I like using my body as a weapon in football and wrestling.

Shane Sparks

Do you remember a particular collision? Because the NFL, it's violent. I used to do a sports talk show outside of Green Bay, and they let us come down on Lambeau for like the final five minutes, and I do a little bit of sideline reporting for college football, and it blows my. like, I wonder, Stephen, like, how you guys even walk off a football field? Some of the collisions, like, blow my mind. You have a. you have a collision or two that you'll remember forever?

Stephen Neal

Yeah, I think I was on the positive sides of a lot of collisions, but there's a couple negative ones. One, I remember we were playing the Bills, and Lawyer Milloy - he was one of my teammates, and he went - he got traded over there to the Bills, and so I practiced with them, and I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna light up Lawyer, so I go to hit him, and I'm just like, ready, and he just, his level changed just below, and he thumped me right in the chest, and I was like, oh, just one of those, you knocks the wind out of you're like, oh, and then you can't show that it hurts you, so you're, you know, you're getting back to the huddle and everything, and like, God dang, lawyer felt like a brick, and then the other one was, whenever there was a interception, I love chasing down and trying to get a tackle, because I love trying to tackle people. So we're playing the Dolphins, and I am, I see the interception, I'm running, and I get blindsided by a rookie, his name is, I think it's like Matt Roth from Iowa, and he hit me so hard, boom, and I went flying, and I land on the ground, and I'm like, oh, but I can't show it, so I just pop up, sprint back to the sidelines, I get to the bench, I just kind of collapse, like, oh my gosh, and then I'm like, I'm gonna find that guy, I'm gonna get. I never got him back, but those are the two that they really knocked my breath out. I was on the kickoff return, so I had a bunch of those ones, but those ones you kind of see coming, and you're kind of expecting that, because they have a back then you had the wedge of three people, and the other guys would just send their wedge buster down there. Thank goodness it's changed, because that was the most dangerous play in my opinion. I got, I got hit pretty hard on those wedge things, but you get hit hard on the wedge. There's two options: you got to run to the sideline, which is like 30 yards, or you just stay in the huddle and just, you're just grimacing. Oh, hopefully you're ready in 30 seconds for the next play. Do you have

Shane Sparks

a. do you have a play that you recall, Stephen? Somebody else like the hardest hit you ever saw? I mean, you got one that stands out that was just,

Stephen Neal

oh, absolutely. So we were playing the Dolphins at home, and we had this play there, so they have an odd defense. There's a guy over the center, and there's guys over two tackles, and we are going to do this toss play, and so I was the guard, and typically on that you run, you run this way, and I either help with hit with the tackle, and we go up to the middle linebacker. Now the middle linebacker was Zach Thomas, and so typically you're you run the toss play, and I'm responsible for him, but he's so fast I'm not going to get to him. So my job was Charlie Weis is like. 100 calls played toss 38 crack Zach, so he's like, you lock eyes with them, you make them think you're gonna hit them, and then our wide receiver came and hit him, hit him this way, and I tell you what, I was, I saw him, I'm looking him in the eyes, and all of a sudden he was gone, and there's a penalty for it, because it was illegal, but I think they slowed him down a little bit for like the next few plays, but it was, it was vicious. I was like, holy smokes. And then some of the times I saw Welker got, he would get hit hard too, because he just be across the middle and just get smoked. But that's Toss 38 Crack Zach. I was like, man, that was a penalty for sure. And Andy got fined too, but it was, he disappeared out of my vision. I was like, that was because our wide receiver, he was from Notre Dame. Oh, I'm blanking on his name, David. He was a bit like he was 210 pounds, like a Jack guy. He came and lit him. It was, it was good. It wasn't my guy, it was the other guy. If

Shane Sparks

you got to go to a back alley, Stephen, with three guys you played with in the, in the course of your career, who are the three guys you're taking to a back alley, and you're on your team?

Stephen Neal

I take Logan Mankins, I would take Darryl Pope. I didn't play with him, he's my coach, sure, and then the other guy would take, I would hope he'd stay on my side, but Richard Seymour, that guy, but I mean, you never know, he might change teams, but halfway through trouble, but if he stayed on my team, that'd be good. So he's a poker player, never know what side he's on. So

Shane Sparks

this has been great, and I'll let you go. Who is your Mount Rushmoremore of wrestling? I mean, you've seen so many greats. Who's on your Mount Rushmoremore? The best you've seen.

Stephen Neal

Oh man, you got to go. Bruce Baumgartnertner, I felt him. I wrestled him, and he just smashed me. And I was, I was younger, but just the success he's had. So, definitely have to be him. Oh, I want to say Dave Schultz. I never got to meet him. I got to wrestle for him, but man, there's you got Cale Sanderson, you have Dan Gable, you have John Smith. Man, it's so tough. I don't know, you almost need a Mount Rushmore for every weight class, you know, exactly,

Shane Sparks

exactly,

Stephen Neal

Jordan Burroughs. I mean, I love watching Jordan Burroughs, man, that double leg. So, I don't know if you could pin me down to four, but, man, Jordan Burroughs, so much fun to watch, winning the world championships with a broken foot. Holy smokes, unbelievable. And then, what Kyle Snyder is doing, I mean, I was there in Jax Forrests, when he won it, when he was like, was he 20 years old, won the world championships, man,

Shane Sparks

was he 19, even that was 2015 in Jax Forrests.

Stephen Neal

Unbelievable. I just, I am so blessed with where the sport of wrestling is today, and the character of the men that are competing. You have Jose Campo, who's a good friend of mine, and he's, he's the chaplain for Team USA, Mike Zadick. What a great leader he is, and just the heart of these guys, because I don't talk smack about my era, but there are some rough and tough guys. I mean, you got to make sure you kind of kept them in line, because they could get sideways quick, you know, and like, so I'm not gonna name any names, but we all know from that era, like, you, it could, it could go sideways real quick. So just so proud of these, I guess, their kids are out there wrestling for the United States of America, and yeah, and then you have people like Kevin Jackson, man, he's still out there coaching, looking good at Michigan. I told him I love, I love seeing him in those Jordans. He looks good in those Jordans, and just because he was like 18 or 19, and he's representing United States back in those days. So, from, I mean, he's seen the people before him all the way to the people nowadays, and what a, what an impressive guy, and I just. I love Kevin and his whole family. Great. Yeah, no, you can't pin me down on four, that's too hard. Who

Shane Sparks

are some of your favorite guys to watch now?

Stephen Neal

Watching now. Okay. Holy, all these, all these rookies, man. That Jax Forrest, unbelievable. I thought Mendez was going to try to hit some double legs from space and just run them down, because I am not going to, I am not going to just go slow in there and be in that position.

Shane Sparks

He's a mousetrap.

Stephen Neal

Oh, unbelievable. I really like watching AJ Ferrari, man. He goes out there and competes. I know some of the antics are a little tough, but he's. I think it's. it's all. and I was so impressed, his character in that Lucas Buchanan, you know what I mean? That was such. I was, I was scared to see how that would go two years ago when he's wrestling Bakersfield, and just the character that he showed in that moment. Minute, I was just really impressed by that, but yeah, the heavyweights, man, it was so much fun to watch that. I love watching Gable, but that Gabe Arnold match, I don't know if you could ever beat that with President Trump right there. I mean, that was

Shane Sparks

that was the electric,

Stephen Neal

and then he salutes, I mean, that was

Shane Sparks

the best, I mean, that was the best celebration, I mean, regardless of politics, that was the with the set of circumstances of that night, wrestling Gable Trump is there, as you mentioned, he's got the American flag on, came from, you know, he's a, he's an officer in the Air Force saluting Trump, I mean, that was, that is going to be tough to beat,

Stephen Neal

yeah, no, 100% And then Rocco Welsh that guy, just nonstop wrestles. I like the way all these freshmen wrestle. I, and I'm just so excited for that 133 pound. I mean, you got there's such good wrestle, 133 140 I mean, people are going to gain weight, people are going to come from underneath, and yeah, it's it's it's crazy, it's crazy,

Shane Sparks

and it never gets easier, right? I mean, it's never like, oh, we can do this with this window, and maybe we got a better chance here. There are, there are always going to be, as you mentioned, guys switching weight classes, and now with some of these potential rules on the line, is five for five. If that goes down, I mean, that's going to be really, I think it's going to be great. I think that's gonna really be awesome.

Stephen Neal

I think so too. And I don't know, you might be able to help me out, but the five for five is so the one part of that, when you're 19, your clock starts, or when you graduate, that's the one I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what the

Shane Sparks

exact, I don't know exactly what it's going to be, but I mean, they'll figure it out, you know, they'll figure it out, but yeah, I think it's, it's like when you're 19, or as you mentioned, if you graduate, I mean, they'll, they'll start the clock, but no, you know, some of these guys want to compete right away, it's not like, you know, some guys take a year's pass, you got Olympic redshirts and gray shirts and regular redshirts, and this and that, like now. I mean, you got to, you got to go, and then we'll see how that influences where you know I would think that naturally that would, that would lead to more parity, right? Because I mean, you wouldn't, now maybe have a few really good guys go to particular school, and again they can figure it out, with you know, doing this and that, and in mixing things up, but now I don't know how that would happen, necessarily. So I'm excited, I mean, it's, I think it's, it'll be voted on here relatively soon, and we'll be interested to see what happens. But my last question for you, Stephen, is this: you are in Southern California, and you are taking a road trip to Bar Harbor, Maine, cross country. You and you get to pick three people that you've never met, dead or alive, three people dead or alive that you've never met. Who would you pick to go on that road trip?

Stephen Neal

Well, I think you got to say Jesus in my case, man, that would be awesome. I would love to hang out with Michael Jordan for a little while, and then, like I said, never got to meet Dave Schultz, and I think he would be so much fun to learn to hear stories. I got to hang out with Mark Schultz and Nancy Schultz, and hear tons of stories, but probably those three, like, so I growing up, I thought Michael Jordan was the best competitor I've ever seen in my life, and he still, to this day, like this, the stuff he did, and in that team sport, winning six championships, three taking a break, and then winning three more, I mean, that's that's hard to do in any sport, so probably those three. We

Shane Sparks

talked about some of the Netflix documentaries before. Have you seen The Last Dance? I mean, that might be number one ever. I mean, just showing Jordan how competitive he was. I mean, that scene with Larry Bird is the one that stands out to me when he's competing against Bird, and it's, yeah, that was so good. I mean, Jordan, there's only. I mean, that is one of one for sure.

Stephen Neal

Yeah, definitely. I'm sure he could probably still sling it out there. So, yeah, it'd be fun. It'd be fun to get to hang and see, just understand his thought process. He'd probably try to bet how fast we're going, or seem like he likes to make a lot of bets, but that's not in my wheelhouse, but still

Shane Sparks

be fine. Well, Stephen, this has been so much fun. Really appreciate getting talking about your career, your perspectives, because you've had some unbelievable stories, and what a great run, both on the Resilite and on the Gridiron. But just really appreciate the time. This has been awesome. Thank you so much.

Stephen Neal

Well, thanks, Shannon. I really enjoy watching your energy. I love watching the Big Ten Network on ESPN. You bring an energy to wrestling. It's so much fun to watch from afar and wish you were there. And yeah, keep up the good work, and really enjoyed spending this time with you anytime.

Shane Sparks

Well, talk. Soon, thanks again. Thanks, Shane. Bye.