Mike Zadick | Episode 13

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

Shane Sparks

And welcome to Episode 13 of Stories from the Resilite, coming to us from Montana. He was a three-time All-American at Iowa, a Big Ten champion, three-time World Team member, 2006 World silver medalist. He's an Olympian for the U.S., Mike Zadick. Mike, I'm looking forward to scrapping with you. How are you?

Mike Zadick

I'm doing great, man. Good to see you.

Shane Sparks

I want to start with where you are. You are right now at Benchmark Wrestling. That is your latest endeavor in growing the sport and helping young people develop through wrestling. Talk about Benchmark Wrestling and where this all began.

Mike Zadick

All right. I'm just looking at you talk, and the energy coming at me makes me feel like I shouldn't be sitting down right now. I should be working out. I feed off energy, so your enthusiasm right now is going to make this fun.

We should be in the same room so we could actually do that, but I'm at Benchmark here in Augusta, Montana. I've got some guys mudding and taping our sheetrock right now. They're doing a great job. I had a couple meetings today about getting our sewer line put in. It's about 1,500 feet away. Then we've got to hook up water, plumb the building and bring a natural gas line up here, too. There are a lot of moving parts on top of the fundraising.

We've had a lot of support from some amazing companies. The crews here right now are donating a hefty amount toward the overall cost.

Shane Sparks

Where did the idea come from, Mike? What made you want to start Benchmark Wrestling?

Mike Zadick

Coming back here, I figured if I did something on my own, I couldn't get fired anymore. If I was my own boss, I thought that would probably be the safest bet in life. I just got sick of that rotation.

My dad's original facility was a car dealership. It's a long building, about 60 by 120 feet. I sold the property in a business deal to a company that was going to build a car wash, and they were just going to demolish the building. I live in a community with fewer than 300 people, and we don't have a facility that size.

When I tore the building down, I thought, probably ignorantly, kind of like the Amish: 'Hey, I've got this barn. Let's stand it back up.' I spent about six weeks tearing it down, moved it to Augusta, and it sat on a ranch for about a year. Then I found land that a lady sold me, and from there I created Benchmark Wrestling.

I said, 'I want to teach wrestling because I know the impact it has on individuals, especially young kids, and how it shapes their mentality.' But we didn't have a place to do it. So the idea became: let me teach wrestling on one side, and let's use the rest as a community center for whatever we need. Then the plan got bigger. Let's add strength-training equipment, a nutrition center and an education center. Let's make it a one-stop shop in town.

You couldn't build only a wrestling gym and keep it sustainable here. I think we'll draw from other small communities, but to pay the taxes and keep moving forward, we needed a bigger picture. I wanted it to be multiuse. We've got about 11,000 square feet, so if you can figure out something to do inside 11,000 square feet, we can probably do it here. We can have a community dance. We're probably going to have a little haunted house. People have already reached out asking if they can use it for different things.

For me, I want to teach wrestling, bring in motivational speakers and people like yourself to talk about their path in life. Kids around here don't get to rub elbows with people like that very often. I think it can be inspiring and impactful. A kid might see someone on TV, meet them here and think, 'How do I become that? I want to do that.' Maybe it inspires somebody locally to go into broadcasting or something else entirely.

The uses for the facility are going to be endless. On the front end, it will be wrestling, memberships for a workout facility and education around nutrition, books, computers and support focused on mental, physical and emotional health.

Shane Sparks

Man, that is awesome. Congratulations as you continue to finish that endeavor. I saw on Benchmark Wrestling's social media today that one of the things you're going to do is put up favorite quotes from your father, Bob. Bob passed away coming up on seven years this November. I know he had a huge impact on you. What are a couple of your favorite quotes from your father?

Mike Zadick

One of the biggest ones always stuck with me when I was trying to make a decision about what route to go. My dad was very frugal, very hardworking and a businessman. He probably had the money to buy something, but he'd still say, 'That's just too much.' I have a lot of that gene in me.

I was putting a door in at my house once. There was a $1,500 option and a $5,000 option. The $5,000 one had a lot more positives, but I was thinking, 'It's glass. It'll be great. Good enough.' He would always tell me, 'If you're going to New York, don't get off in Chicago, kid.' That stuck with me. He said it when I was a kid, and I've used it more and more. Now, when I'm at a crossroads, my buddies will even say it to me.

The one that probably had the biggest impact on Bill and me was something he said to us and to the kids he coached: 'If you're going to do something in life, I don't care what it is, do it like a world champion.' He'd say, 'If you're chewing gum, chew gum like a world champion.' That made kids laugh, but when you dissect it as an adult, it means if you're going to tackle something, do it at the highest level possible.

Knowing where I've been in the sport, the people I've been around and the level those people live at, that's the difference. Bill and I tried to do everything we possibly could like a world champion. I carry that message forward now, whether it's schoolwork, warming up before technique or walking down the street. Put your time, your brain, your energy and your focus into it, and you're going to get more reward out of it.

Shane Sparks

For sure. What do you miss most about your dad?

Mike Zadick

Oh, man. You're going to pull the heartstrings on me. I bring him up all the time. I was talking to a gentleman earlier today and I said, 'See, right there, I wish I could call him right now and ask him.' That's probably it. The conversation.

When my dad passed, I was there in the room. He had a stroke. My dad was probably the most powerful person to me. The way he talked, the way he built you up. He was tough on me when I was a kid, but he was so powerful when you spoke with him. Watching him walk by would light you up. I feel your energy talking to you right now. It's enthusiastic, motivating and uplifting. My dad was a powerhouse like that to me.

When he passed, I saw that energy leave his body. I was raised Catholic, and I'm not the greatest by any means, but I'm a believer in Christ. In that moment I understood the soul part of it in a different way. I realized the body was just the casing.

I didn't realize until he wasn't looking at me anymore and wasn't speaking to me anymore how much of me came from that force. If I'm 100% Mike Zadick, it felt like 45% drained out of my system when he went. His words, his eyes, his posture, how he talked, even when he was calm and loving, it was gone. It took a whole chunk of space out of me. He had such an impact on my life. So the conversation is what I miss most. Giving him a hug.

Shane Sparks

He'd be real proud of you, Mike. He'd be real proud of you and your brother, your whole family. I want to ask you this. If somebody asked me, after doing this for 20 years, who are a couple of people who surprised me the most, I've got two names right away: Steve Mocco and Mike Zadick.

It's difficult to judge or get to know somebody when they're inside the arena. When you put a scoreboard next to you guys, it's a different deal than Christmas Eve dinner. I remember doing World Team interviews and, if I'm being honest, I was scared to death of you. You were pretty quiet. You weren't buddy-buddy. We were fine, but I didn't know you that well. As I've gotten to know you, you're one of the kindest, most generous, heartfelt people I've come to know in this sport. Explain that to me.

Mike Zadick

I think it's probably my mom's side of my upbringing coming out in me, and my dad, too. I was in an environment that had a certain template, and I didn't realize it at the time. You ask my brother and people will say, 'He seems so intense, such a hard-ass.' Bill will say, 'No. He's the most fun-loving, happy-go-lucky, crazy, wild uncle.' I've always been that way.

I think I was in an environment that was very much us against the world. Everybody's against you. Looking back, I don't agree with that. Mentally, the last thing you want for your own mental health is to believe the whole world is against you. It stems from negativity. It's more powerful to believe the world is for you. There will always be naysayers, and you can digest that and use it as motivation, but I got wrapped up in the Kool-Aid of being the crazy, intense, tough guy.

I can honestly say I was probably in a place where, if you're against me, we hate each other. You're trying to beat me. There's a lot of growth in the sport when you mature and come out of that. I look at someone like Coleman Scott, who I competed against. I have the utmost respect for him and what he's doing in life now. Back then, I was thinking, 'He's trying to take food off my table.' As you get older, you learn you're often very similar people.

You also see environments like Penn State, where people try to mimic the 'we have fun' approach. They've been saying it for years, and the proof is in the pudding. They genuinely aren't so uptight, aggressive and locked into that whole-world-is-against-me mentality. I had that image, and I was an ass. I can admit that. I was pretty intense. It was a different frame of mind, and a lot of that stems from your environment.

Shane Sparks

You were a four-time state champ, and I believe three of those years you were undefeated. What is your favorite state championship memory in Montana? One of the four.

Mike Zadick

Gosh, I can hardly remember them. Probably my freshman year.

The fourth title was special because, back in eighth grade, I remember thinking, 'I can't be the brother who doesn't win four.' I wasn't as naturally spectacular a wrestler as Bill, so I really got after it. Getting that fourth one was a goal accomplished.

But the one that sticks out is probably freshman year because it was the first. I was nervous. I'll give a shout-out to Jason Aguayo. We were both freshmen. I pinned him early in the season, then the next match got closer, and every time we wrestled it kept getting closer. By the state finals, I knew it was going to be a dogfight. As the natural progression went, it felt like he was going to win the next one.

I ended up opening it up early and won by a pretty good margin. I had been working on this boot scoot that Lincoln McIlravy used to do, the arm-drag boot scoot, and I hit it on him in the state finals. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. It opened up the score, my emotions relaxed and I went on. That one sticks out because I wasn't quite sure I was going to get it.

Shane Sparks

You've mentioned your brother Bill a few times. Your brother is the current men's freestyle head coach. He was a national champion for Dan Gable and a World champion. You've had a phenomenal career, and he's had a phenomenal career. You're the younger brother. What was it like being Bill's younger brother and dealing with those comparisons?

Mike Zadick

Bill was so much older than me that it wasn't really a thing at first. He's five and a half years older. When I'm seven years old, my big brother is the coolest person on the planet. Even when I got into junior high and he was in high school, he was still the coolest person on the planet.

I put the comparison on myself because he was becoming a four-time state champion and going to Iowa to wrestle for Dan Gable. We were raised in freestyle and Greco. As kids, we didn't have folkstyle. I hadn't even won a freestyle state championship yet, and I ended up winning my high school state title before I won a freestyle club state championship.

Bill was full throttle from the day he put on wrestling shoes. He was a wild man. For lack of better words, he was an ass kicker from day one. Naturally hardworking, high energy. He was a badass, and I wasn't. I didn't have that same intensity. I was younger, afraid of my own shadow and sensitive.

Around eighth grade, I matured. My balls dropped, so to speak, and I realized I wanted to tear down the countryside like my brother did. Part of my motivation was the old Iowa video Competitor Supreme. I watched it every day for years. It helped motivate me. I wanted to be tougher, and I got tougher.

I knew the moves and had good technique. Coaches would tell me I reminded them of Dave Schultz, which boosted me. But I didn't have that killer instinct. That's when it transitioned. I had the moves, I just needed the fight. Bill and I joke that we switched spots a little bit. He's such a refined, calm guy now, and when I was transitioning in college I was really coming out of my shell.

Shane Sparks

Were you always going to Iowa? Did you go on any visits? With your brother there and having success, was Iowa City a no-brainer?

Mike Zadick

It was the only place I went, but I give John Smith crap for this, and I hope he listens. My high school coach was a smokejumper, and I had this idea that I was going to win four college titles, four World titles, the Olympics and become a world champion bull rider. Then, in my 30s, I was going to smokejump and become a firefighter.

I wanted to wrestle for Dan Gable and go to Iowa. But I also looked at academics because I wasn't going just for wrestling. Oklahoma State had fire science, and this was the John Smith era. He's winning Worlds, I've got posters of him on my wall, and I'm thinking, 'That son of a bitch has never called me.' If he had called, I would have taken a trip, and I might have been persuaded.

My senior year of high school, John came to Montana for a coaches clinic for my dad and the Montana Coaches Association. My dad told me, 'John Smith is coming to town. I need you to take him fishing.' So I took him out to some great spots and he caught some good fish. We had a great couple of days. John says, 'Man, you're going to Iowa, huh?' I said, 'That's your fault. You never called me.' Jay Robinson and other schools had called. The one school I might have seriously considered was Oklahoma State because of fire science. John basically said, 'Man, I sure missed the boat.' It was all in fun, but I would have been open to it.

Shane Sparks

That's a great story. What was that 'welcome to college wrestling' moment when you went to Iowa City?

Mike Zadick

There were a couple. In my first few weeks of school, I got into a couple of fights. I drove this Podunk 1977 Cadillac Sedan DeVille. It was the longest car on the market, and I think I got it for $400. Some guys cut me off. I got pissed, chased them to the next light and was hanging out the window yelling that I was going to kill the guy's dog, burn his house down and everything else.

I get home, and maybe 10 minutes later the house phone rings. It's Coach Gable. I'm still in that mode where it's like, 'Wow, Dan Gable is talking to me.' Then he says, 'What the hell is going on?' I'm like, 'What do you mean? I'm just at the house.' He says, 'You can't be hanging out of a car window telling people you're going to burn their house down and kill their dog.' I'm dumbfounded. I'd been on campus maybe eight days. It just happened that those people knew who I was and knew the family.

That taught me quickly: everybody knows Iowa wrestlers, even true freshmen. Wrestling is a way of life in Iowa. The community knows you, supports you and holds you up in a way I'd never experienced in Montana. Iowa and Iowa State both have such rich traditions.

In the wrestling room, the big realization was that I wasn't as good as I thought I was. That was a huge swallow of humility, which was good. I had won Fargo and had a lot of high-level success in high school, then I got to Iowa and was picking partners like Terry Brands, Tom Brands, Mark Ironside, Jeff McGinness and Lincoln McIlravy. I didn't get a takedown before Christmas.

I had to really hone in on my skills and develop self-worth and belief. Top-bottom wrestling is hard to learn in college. On my feet I could be pretty scrappy, but once those guys got me down, they could ride the dog snot out of me. Part of me was thinking, 'Quit riding me so hard. Let's get back on our feet.' But the lesson was that I had to learn to get off the bottom, too. Those are the growing pains of college. You realize what it's going to take.

Shane Sparks

Was there a guy or two who was more encouraging during those darker, frustrating days while you learned how to compete at that level?

Mike Zadick

Lincoln McIlravy. We connected really well. When I first got to college, I was really connected to the Brands brothers because you're just in awe. But from an emotional and developmental standpoint, Lincoln was really special to me.

Shane Sparks

You wrestled for Gable one year, right? What do you remember about the coaching change when he announced he was retiring?

Mike Zadick

I was there when it happened because I had just gotten there. That first year, because of his hip surgery, he was taking a leave of absence. So he was in the room, then he wasn't. Jim Zalesky was stepping in. Gable was around and running some club practices, but he never really put together a full training cycle while I was there like the older guys talked about. Jim Zalesky took that over. My personal coaching gravitated toward Tom Brands and Terry Brands.

Shane Sparks

What's the biggest thing you learned from Terry?

Mike Zadick

Probably not appropriate for me to say. They both taught me some lessons that might not align well with this podcast, or anybody for that matter.

But one impactful moment was my freshman year at training camp in the summer. Terry pushed me toward the end of a workout. I remember the workout and the section of the mat. I really took leaps and bounds after that push. He wanted me to cut him and go again. I thought practice was winding down, but he stepped in one-on-one and pushed me through more than anyone else was getting at that moment.

I responded because I was getting that attention. It added another 20 or 30 minutes of work. When I got done, I took my shirt and threw it, and it just slapped the mat. You could tell how wet a shirt was by how hard it slapped. I think I lost eight and a half or nine pounds in that workout. You could wring the shirt out multiple times.

I felt awesome afterward. The growth was more between the ears than technical. My approach after that was different. Different vision, different look.

Shane Sparks

What was your redshirt freshman season like? Were you in and out of the lineup a little bit that year?

Mike Zadick

Doug Schwab was kind of my enemy when I got to college, even though he was my teammate, because he was a year ahead of me and already established in the lineup. We were wrestling off for the spot. I beat him in a wrestle-off early, and I was excited, but it was never cut and dry. It was a one-point match, maybe overtime. We wrestled some tournaments, and one of us would place second and the other third.

Later he got to wrestle a home dual after an open tournament, and I didn't understand it. Then after Christmas he beat me in the wrestle-off and got the spot. I was told I wasn't going to get another chance. When we wrestled Oklahoma State, I think they bumped Schwab to 149 and put me in at 141. That was the only varsity match I remember having as a freshman.

Shane Sparks

Then the next year you're the guy. You go to the national tournament as the seventh seed and finish seventh, your first All-American honor. What do you remember from that tournament?

Mike Zadick

I was in a bad spot physically. I had high ankle sprains, so I was taped up all season and in quite a bit of pain. It was a struggle that sophomore year. But I remember Gable making a comment after the high crotch I hit on Quinn Foster in overtime for seventh place. He just kind of gave me the smile and the nod. That's literally what stuck with me.

Shane Sparks

During your time at Iowa, you were part of three team national championships. What's it like being part of a group of like-minded people on the hunt?

Mike Zadick

It was a pretty cool time to be there. There were so many high-level athletes and individuals making each other better. You don't get to be around that every day.

I brought up Schwab earlier. When I got there, he was like an enemy, and we grew into really good friends. He's come out to my house here. It's funny because the guy was winning an NCAA title when I was there. That's the best of the best in that moment.

I got to see different ways of doing it. Doug Schwab won an NCAA title, Steve Mocco won an NCAA title, and they did it differently. I got to see how work ethic, mentality and all those things came together in different people.

Shane Sparks

Who were the most disciplined teammates you were ever around at any level?

Mike Zadick

Probably Schwab and Jody Strittmatter. There were also guys in the room whose names people might not know who were there every single day doing things right. Jody was cutting weight, so his nutrition had to be very regimented, and he worked really hard. Schwab had to stay lean, too, and every day after practice he was still working.

Shane Sparks

Tell me about one of those guys who wasn't necessarily one of the big-name Iowa stars, but was a great teammate you admired.

Mike Zadick

Mitch Payton was a really good buddy of mine. We came in the same year. Jeff Stewart was one of my best buddies, too. We were in that car accident together, and he was never able to wrestle again. He was a phenomenal wrestler. He was in overtime with Joe Heskett in an open tournament, and I think he might have beaten him. He won every open tournament he went to that freshman year. He was capable of becoming a multiple-time NCAA champion, but God had different plans.

Shane Sparks

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I had no idea about a car accident.

Mike Zadick

My true freshman year, Jeff and I got hit head-on coming back from Apple Valley, Minnesota, during the Big Ten tournament break. We were on Highway 63, lost control in crosswind and ice, and got hit head-on with everything moving full bore.

I remember lying there thinking I was dying because I couldn't breathe. My eyes slowly faded, then I woke up and started getting my breath back. Jeff was driving a Chevy. The entire back section of the car was torn off. I could see the back tires, fenders, window and trunk in the ditch. His Minnesota license plate said 'TAKEDOWN.' I remember thinking, 'How am I sitting here in the car when the car is over there in the ditch? Am I dead?'

Jeff wasn't in his seat, but his seat belt was still buckled and shredded. I got out, stumbled around the car and found him in the fetal position. He didn't wake up when I talked to him. Bystanders started coming. A woman moved her kids far away and let me sit in her minivan.

Jeff was in a coma for about 30 days. He had to learn to walk and talk. He lost his spleen and tore most of his aorta. I was in the hospital overnight. I had already separated my shoulder wrestling and re-separated it with the seat belt, plus I hurt a rib, but I was fortunate to walk away. I stayed with Jeff for about two weeks until the coaches called and told me I had to get my butt back to school.

Shane Sparks

And that ended his wrestling career?

Mike Zadick

Yeah. He never wrestled again. Jeff was an Apple Valley stud. It was a big wreck.

I've been in enough accidents to put life in perspective. In high school, Oscar Wood, Isaac Wood, my sister and I were in a Jeep that rolled five times down the interstate. We all flew out and somehow walked away. Then in college, Wes Hand and I got hit by a drunk high school kid going about 70 miles an hour. Our car spun around and landed on a sidewalk. I bounced off every window and ended up on Wes's lap.

After the high school accident I honestly thought everything after that was bonus life. Then the wreck with Jeff happened and I thought, 'You can't have any more of these, right?' I'm very fortunate to be alive and fortunate to have had my high school, college and international wrestling career. I could have hit a fence post on the side of the road and been done.

Shane Sparks

Of all the podcasts I've done, this has been something. You've been in multiple serious accidents. You're lucky to be alive. God's definitely had His hands on you.

I want to look at your redshirt junior year. You weren't seeded, had double-digit losses going into the tournament, beat the No. 1 seed Reggie Wright from Oklahoma State, lost to Jared Frayer and then came back to take third. I've always thought third place is one of the most admirable spots on the podium because your dreams have been shattered and you still have to come back and compete. Walk us through navigating those highs and lows.

Mike Zadick

I'd been inconsistent throughout the year, but I knew my capabilities. I'd had good wins. I had beaten Adam Tirapelle. I knew I could put it together and beat anyone ranked ahead of me, but I was inconsistent.

I remember seeing the seeding and getting pissed off. Tom Brands walked up and could almost feel it coming off of me. It had my skin on fire. I had that 'I'm going to show them' feeling. I remember teching the hell out of somebody in the first match, then I had Reggie. I was lit up and knew I was going to go full bore. He was undefeated, but I believed I could beat him if I wrestled a full match.

The next morning I had to get that engine back up, and I didn't get it up well enough. Old Jared Frayer stepped in. Son of a bitch. The funny thing is, I've gone fishing with Jared since then. We're good buddies. I get along with him and his wife. It's funny how it comes full circle. Back then, in that environment, the other guy was the enemy. Now it's more positive, and Jared Frayer is pretty good shit.

Shane Sparks

Frayer is great. You mentioned Tirapelle and Jared Lawrence, too. I get the chance to talk to a lot of you guys, and I always think that if a lot of you hung out, you'd be best friends because you're so similar. Part of that similarity is the stubbornness that made you great.

Mike Zadick

One of the most respectable things about it is humility. I've had a beer with Jared Lawrence in Fargo. We competed against each other, but later you're in a good place and you realize the guy is cool as shit. He's confident in who he is, I'm confident in who I am, and we both have humility because we've learned that on any given day somebody can tear you down real quick. That's the nature of this whole beast.

Shane Sparks

The best of the best get humbled. This sport is going to humble you at some point. One of my favorite tweets was from Isaiah Martinez after a finals loss: 'Very few get out of this game unscathed.' That sums it up.

But there's growth in it. I was supposed to be at the Real American Freestyle event in Russia, but they couldn't get the American feed, and because I don't speak Russian I couldn't go. I was almost depressed watching it because I wanted to be there so badly. Then I told myself, 'Shane, this is good for you. Almost enjoy the disappointment.' Maybe the next time you get the opportunity, you appreciate it more.

Mike Zadick

That's something wrestlers understand. You can have all these hopes and dreams, invest all this time and energy, and then have it pulled out from underneath you. Nobody wants to sign up for that. But then you go do it again, and that's where growth comes from.

That's part of why I'm building Benchmark Wrestling and why I want to teach wrestling at all ages. It's more about the mentality behind wrestling. People ask, 'How's your wrestling facility going?' and then, 'What else are you going to do in there?' I have to explain that the word wrestling itself means struggle. Benchmark Wrestling is about physical, emotional and mental health, and you get stability from experiences like we're talking about through wrestling.

A five-year-old can win a match and everybody is applauding, Mom and Dad are hugging him and he's proud of himself. Five minutes later he gets picked up, slammed and runs off the mat crying. Everybody is looking at him, he's embarrassed and disappointed in himself. He has to learn to deal with that emotion.

And in the big picture, he just got beat. He didn't walk off the mat with cancer or some life-changing tragedy. His emotions are hurt. How do you get better at anything? Repetition. My dad used to say, 'Drill yourself into a coma.' Learn to succeed and learn to fail repeatedly. That's how you adjust and move beyond where you were.

Shane Sparks

How much pressure did you feel heading into your final season at Iowa?

Mike Zadick

Looking back, I've dissected my senior year like a son of a gun because it was hard for me. Sports psychology is one area where athletes have gotten so much better. You look at the opportunities kids have now, the coaches they're exposed to, nutrition, sports psychology, supplements with third-party testing. Everything is more refined.

Sports psychology probably could have helped me. I had a lot of confidence and I worked hard, but there were moments when I'd get tight before stepping on the mat. The first time I wrestled Adam Tirapelle, he was ranked No. 1 in the country. I had one varsity match under my belt, went out in Carver-Hawkeye Arena and lit him up something like 11-3. I had nothing to lose, no pressure, and I wrestled freely. That's how I wrestled best.

As I started expecting that from myself all the time, that's where I struggled. I'd tell myself, 'Relax, relax,' but I'd stay tight and nervous. Looking back, instead of only telling myself to get tough, I probably should have talked about it. But those were different times.

Shane Sparks

Some of that is just different times. Sports psychology has evolved. Did you do anything during your time at Iowa to work on the mental side?

Mike Zadick

Bible study. I did Bible study, and really, my prayers. We had a sports psychologist there, but going to one was kind of frowned upon at the time. My dad's mentality was more like, 'Why are you crying? Are you bleeding? No? Spit on it, throw some dirt on it, you'll be all right.' As you get older, though, if you're struggling at 21 or 22 and emotional vulnerability isn't really accepted in that environment, you just deal with it and move forward.

Shane Sparks

You won the Big Tens and were undefeated going into the NCAAs. Here we go, buddy. You wrestled Jake Percival in the quarterfinals. Those wounds take a while to heal, if ever. What's different about your perspective now compared with almost 25 years ago?

Mike Zadick

It goes back to how I carried myself. I've heard that I wasn't very approachable then, and that's probably accurate. I was walking around foaming at the mouth. In high school, though, some of my best high-pressure matches came when I was relaxed. My coaches would tell me a joke. I always chewed gum. If I wasn't relaxed enough, they'd throw me some gum. I'd walk out on the mat chewing it.

When I got to Iowa, I was more like a pissed-off badger. I think my personality and how I carried myself might have been more successful with a mindset of not 'me against the world,' but 'the world's on my side, and God's giving me strength.'

Shane Sparks

Did you feel different going into that Percival match? Those Friday quarterfinals can be a different animal.

Mike Zadick

I honestly couldn't even remember at first whether it was the quarterfinals or second round. But I remember my warm-up. I knew it wasn't enough. Mentally I felt loose, but I always performed better if I already had a sweat going before I stepped on the mat. I didn't have that sweat going.

I was like a diesel. Once I was going full bore, I could keep going. But I remember hitting a wall at the end of the first period. I was in great shape, but everything felt heavy. I had to work hard for my takedown, and I remember thinking, 'If I'd walked on the mat dripping sweat, I wouldn't feel this way.' It may have just been getting the engine up and running.

Life is funny. Not long ago, I'm sitting in a local bar or cafe here and a guy from Ohio knows exactly who I am. We start talking wrestling and he says, 'Do you know Jake Percival?' He already knew the answer. I just thought, 'Wow, this guy has a sense of humor.' At the time, that loss felt like life or death. Now life moves on.

Do I wish I'd won an NCAA title? Yeah. But I've probably beaten 15 NCAA champions. It wasn't a question of whether I was good enough. I didn't put it together, and that's on me. I joked with the guy that he was lucky I'm a stable individual, because 20 years ago that name might have set me off a little more.

Shane Sparks

What was most critical in getting past that?

Mike Zadick

It took a long time. When I started wrestling at five, my dad said, 'You're going to be Olympic champion.' I didn't even really know what it meant. I just wrote it down, looked at it every day and made it my motivation. To get there, I had steps: four-time state champion, four-time NCAA champion, all the way up.

I tell kids now that once you make the NCAA tournament, the season before it doesn't matter. It's a new tournament. The whole season was a stepping stone to the end game. For me, every tournament in my career was ultimately a stepping stone toward the Olympics.

My freshman year in college, I beat the NCAA champion. Sophomore year, I beat the NCAA champion. Junior year, I beat the NCAA champion. Senior year, I beat the NCAA champion. I'm not saying I'm the greatest. I was a respectable wrestler. But how I put everything together, the coaching and all the variables, that's on me.

Later, coaching at Virginia Tech, I really enjoyed being able to help plan how a team peaks, when to pour it on, when to back off and how to get each individual to his highest level. That was something I struggled with as an athlete, so I was very sensitive to it as a coach.

I also understood that the bigger goal for me was Worlds and the Olympics. Over time, the more you have to be around the loss and talk about it, the more you grow. At first, if somebody brought it up, part of me would think, 'Why would you say that? Why would you bring that up?' Eventually you get past that stage.

Shane Sparks

You made three World Teams and won a World silver medal in 2006. You were one of the best guys in the world. What were you most proud of in that effort and standing on the podium with the American flag going up?

Mike Zadick

It was exciting to make that tournament, my first World Team. I was excited to compete against Mavlet Batirov. I thought we'd match up well. He was phenomenal, and I'd watched him wrestle a lot. He was so good when guys attacked him. He could sneak into something from anywhere, but I thought we'd match up well.

Obviously, I was let down. At that time the rules were so strange with drawing a ball and the clinch. I can look back and feel like in almost any other era I would have won that match. I'm not trying to take credit away from him, but he beat me on those technicalities and I was the only one to score an actual takedown. I walked off thinking, 'How am I the only one who scored a real takedown and I lose?'

That's how close the highest level is. It's the difference between being in the record book as a World champion and not being there. But the experience was great, and honestly watching my brother win the World title the next day outweighed everything.

That was a dream come true. Our whole lives, Dad would say, 'You've got to do it because Dave Schultz does it. Mark Schultz does it. John Smith does it.' Suddenly my brother was that guy. It came full circle. I was close, but watching Bill accomplish that lifelong mission was incredibly moving.

Shane Sparks

I want to go back to college. We talked about Competitor Supreme, then ESPN comes out with The Season following the Iowa Hawkeyes in 2001-02. What do you remember about having the film crew there? And one of the best lines ever: 'Don't have the mayonnaise because it sticks to your stomach.' I still remember that.

Mike Zadick

That's funny. I've had people come up to me and quote the mayonnaise line. I had no clue it resonated with people like that.

Shane Sparks

If I go to Subway now, I don't get mayo. I tell them, 'Can't have mayo. It sticks to your stomach.' That's the truth. You should have T-shirts made. Anybody in wrestling around our age knows exactly what that line is. Talk about being part of that production.

Mike Zadick

Wrestling didn't have that kind of following then, so it was a big deal. These ESPN guys were following us everywhere. They went to school and class with me. They rode in my truck. I was driving an old 1977 Ford back then, and I still have it. It was gray then. It's red now.

They were in class, in the wrestling room, at Subway, on the plane, on the bus. They were everywhere. They were good guys. Having cameras around elevated people, kind of like when Gable walked around the room. Wherever Gable stepped, that corner of the room elevated because you wanted to show your best. A camera could do some of the same thing.

The funny thing about the mayonnaise line is that some of it came from things I learned as a kid. Bill and I went to Cobra Camp in Oregon. Coach Mark Sprague brought in motivational speakers, and I remember learning nutrition concepts from Zig Ziglar when I was really young. That philosophy stuck with me and just came out naturally at the time.

Shane Sparks

I loved the guy who narrated The Season. The way he sounded talking about the Midlands and getting your Midlands jacket, it was so good. I know the show brings back some tough memories for you, but it was pretty cool.

Mike Zadick

There's been enough time now. It's all good.

Shane Sparks

You wanted to become an Olympic champion, and you go to the Olympics in 2008. Hard to believe that's coming up on 20 years ago. What was the coolest thing about being at the Olympic Games? Any memories that stand out?

Mike Zadick

A lot of it was the workouts and being around other athletes. We shared a locker-room area, and down from us was the men's basketball team. I remember Daniel Cormier and I walking out of the training room one day. I'd been getting my ankles taped, and he says, 'Dude, did you know who you were talking to?'

There are all these six-foot-plus basketball players around. I knew Kobe Bryant and LeBron James because they were everywhere, but I didn't follow basketball enough to know everybody. The guy I had been talking to ended up being Carmelo Anthony. He was cool as heck. We had a great conversation.

When I was young, wrestling inspired me because I got to meet Randy Lewis after the '84 Olympics, shake hands with John Smith, Tom Brands and all these guys. So at the Olympics, being around athletes from other sports was similar. I shook LeBron's hand and got a picture with him. I was never a huge fanboy, but I thought, 'LeBron James is standing right here. I should get a picture.' I got some cool memories out of it.

Shane Sparks

Mike, who's the toughest guy you've ever wrestled? Not necessarily the most talented. Just someone you hated wrestling.

Mike Zadick

Probably a kid when I was in about fifth grade. I couldn't even tell you his name. He was from Flint, Michigan. I went out and wrestled this dude, and he tech-falled me in about 12 seconds. He was like a grown-ass man with muscles coming out everywhere. I don't know what it was, but those kids from Flint were tougher than crap. Unbelievable athletes.

Past that, I can't give you one exact guy. There was a Turk I wrestled who was dirty and hacky. He grabbed things he wasn't supposed to grab and stuck knuckles deep into my eye socket. I didn't like that kind of stuff. But looking back, I miss wrestling. I'd love to be healthy again and go scrap with guys.

Shane Sparks

When you reflect on your career, and it's been almost a couple of decades now, have you come to appreciate how special a career you've had?

Mike Zadick

Not at all, really. I think the experience is one of the greatest things in my life, but looking back at what I did, it feels like it's been done 5,000 times. I think it's respectable, but there were a lot of things I didn't reach, and maybe the failures still outweigh the high points when I look at the career itself.

What I've gained from the sport, though, is amazing: the relationships, friendships and everything around it. Those relationships have circled around my life to this day.

I'm here trying to put up a building that costs around $2.7 million in a town of roughly 230 people. When I explain the plan, some people ask, 'How are you going to afford this? Who's going to pay for that?' I had confidence because of the wrestling world around me, all over the country and outside the country. I believed I had relationships with people who believed in me and would contribute.

Shane Sparks

How can people get involved with Benchmark Wrestling? Where should they go?

Mike Zadick

The website is benchmarkwrestling.org, and social media is where I update things most often.

The building is insured at an estimated value around $1.6 million. We've raised roughly three-quarters of a million dollars in cash, and we've had more than $840,000 in in-kind gifts. A company might quote $120,000 for windows and installation, and another says, 'We'll do it for $70,000.' That difference becomes part of the contribution. Same thing with concrete, labor and other work.

Former wrestlers tied to the sport through my dad, teammates of mine, parents of people I've coached, friends and family have all contributed. That's what's so cool about it. It came from the sport of wrestling.

The Olympic gold medal I wanted never ended up around my neck, but now I can ask myself: what's more important, keeping a gold medal in my house above the mantel or impacting every individual who comes in and out of this gym? At 48, after not reaching every goal, that perspective makes more sense to me. Relationships, relationships, relationships.

Shane Sparks

Super exciting stuff. What I love about this podcast is that everybody has a story and a journey. Whether you're a three-time World Team member and Olympian like yourself, a Big Ten champion or somebody who wrestled through seventh grade, this sport puts its thumbprint on you. When you look at your journey, what is the coolest thing about the Mike Zadick journey?

Mike Zadick

The coolest thing? I wish you'd sent me a letter with that question so I could give you a more philosophical answer. Nothing superficial jumps out. It goes back to relationships.

I have a friend here who runs a construction company. Once in a while my phone rings and it's a household-name UFC fighter. Or it's Dan Gable calling. Or Shane Sparks. I told him I had your podcast today, and he was blown away. It makes you step back and think about the people wrestling has put into your life.

You're kind of an anchor of wrestling. I've seen you do football, too, but to me you're the wrestling guy. I've known you so long that you're the kind of friend where we might not see each other for three years, then go fishing and just pick up the conversation.

That's the life of wrestling to me: the personalities, the humility and the relationships.

Shane Sparks

I love wrestling. It's the best. It's my favorite thing. You mentioned broadcasting. If somebody gave me a magic wand and said I could do anything in broadcasting, I'd want to do a wrestling version of NFL Primetime. Go through Iowa-Rutgers, Oklahoma State-Penn State, whatever happened, with highlights and music in the background. I love doing those one-minute highlight segments during Big Ten broadcasts.

Mike Zadick

How are your people not getting behind that? You've got Real American Freestyle getting attention, the college season, these studs in high school, the international level. There is so much you could cover.

Shane Sparks

It would be great. It just takes so much editing. Maybe I can talk people into letting me do it one time. Mike, it's humbling to hear that from guys like you. If somebody asked me over the last 25 years who I would hate to wrestle, it would be you. A guy like you, Max Murin, guys who never quit. Six, seven, eight minutes, every single second, no letup. I wouldn't wrestle you or fight you with two tanks.

Last question. You've still got that 1977 Ford. Let's say we're driving it from Montana to Miami. You get to pick three people, dead or alive, whom you've never met. Who are you taking?

Mike Zadick

My grandma and grandpa on my dad's side. I never met them. My grandpa died when my dad was 18. He had a heart attack and died at 46. My grandma died about 10 years later, at 56. So probably the two of them and maybe George Patton. General George Patton. I think that would be a good one. I might have to move some people to the back so I could talk with Patton for a while.

Shane Sparks

Oh man, Mike, this has been awesome.

Mike Zadick

You haven't even scratched the surface on the bad-accident stories. A few years ago, I jumped off a tractor on a switchback coming down a mountain. I lost all my hydraulics, so I had no brakes and couldn't lower the bucket. It was a pretty big tractor. I looked over the edge and thought, 'If I jump here, I'm going to die because it's a cliff.'

The tractor started hopping and building momentum. I grabbed a fender and the wheel. Right as the road split and the tractor was heading toward a ravine, I jumped so I could land on something instead of going into rock and timber. I hit the ground and woke up next to a green cedar tree about four inches in diameter. My hip and ribs hit it at the base. My pelvis was all out of whack on the X-ray. It was one of the craziest, scariest, most desperate situations I've ever been in.

Shane Sparks

I have to ask you this before we leave, because I know you do a lot of hunting. Give me your craziest or best hunting story.

Mike Zadick

My brother, Oscar Wood and Isaac Wood probably have crazier ones. One of my favorite stories was in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. I was by myself and called in a bull elk that was ready to go. It came running into this timber patch, looking left and right. I thought it was going to walk through one alley, and it came through another.

It stopped about seven feet from me, and I'm at full draw thinking, 'Holy crap, this thing is right there.' It bugled. I don't like people breathing on me. In saunas, if somebody was above you breathing on you, we'd almost get in fights over it. This bull stopped and bugled, and I had a long beard at the time. Its breath moved my beard and hit me in the face. It was warm, and I did not like that feeling.

I almost reacted instead of staying focused, but I held it together. The bull looked left, looked right, and I was thinking, 'Is he playing possum? Does he see me, or am I really camouflaged that well?' He put his head down and walked right past me, literally by my shoulder.

I couldn't turn to shoot because we were so close. I had to lean way back, turn and let the arrow go at point-blank range. He ran about 40 yards and I found him dead. We're talking inches. I actually had to create enough inches to get the shot off.

We were 19 or 20 miles in on horseback in the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Being that close, by myself, and having that experience happen was awesome. That's why you do it.

Shane Sparks

Mike, I'm looking forward to crossing paths. I really appreciate the time. Some absolutely awesome stories. Thank you so much.

Mike Zadick

Hey man, thank you for having me. I appreciate you. It's good to see you.

Shane Sparks

We'll talk soon. Thanks, Mike.

Mike Zadick

All right, man. Take care.