Jordan Burroughs | Episode 1

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

Jason Bryant

It's time for Stories from the Resilite, tales of triumph and tradition. Step onto the mat and into the moments that shaped wrestling history. It all comes to life on Stories from the Resilite. Here's your host, award winning wrestling broadcaster, Shane Sparks.

Shane Sparks

And welcome to episode one of Stories from the Resilite. It's a real honor to welcome in our first guest on this podcast. Six time world champion, 2012 Olympic gold medalist, two time NCAA champion for Nebraska. He's got a Hodge Trophy on his resume as well. Jordan Burroughs, Jordan NCAA finals, just wrapping up your thoughts on those amazing few days of wrestling in Cleveland.

Jordan Burroughs

I thought the action was awesome. You know, I've been at the top of the podium totem pole for such a long part of my career that I can't say I'm a guy that always loves the upset, but man, does it do something exciting for the fan base, for the crowd, because oftentimes you go into these tournaments and the expectation is, if seeds hold true, it's not a lot of excitement, because the ex everyone just knows that these guys are already high caliber wrestlers, and everyone expects them to win. So when you see the guys that come in that have been training in the darkness and obscurity and go on and have phenomenal performances in those three days. It's really cool. So I love the action. I'm a big wrestling fan, at heart. So when I see these young guys winning at an early age, it's a lot of fun for me.

Shane Sparks

Who stood out to you? A couple of guys that really made an impression.

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, for sure. I would probably say Aden Valencia. You know, I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, How in the world does he have I think he had seven losses coming into the tournament, or something crazy like that. Seven times this season? watching him wrestle, watching the way he competes. I watched him down big in the match, find a way to come back against Jackson Joy in the quarterfinals. I watched him mount a lead in the finals and preserve it. You know, it all the things he needed to do, whether it was high-flying action, he was trying inside trips, throw-bys, far-knee picks. So he had a versatility in his attacks. He had great conditioning, because he held up in some really deep waters against some some high level opponents. Shoot, he beat Jackson Joy, who's a hammer on top and really hard to stop from getting cradled from and on top of it all, on top of it all is beating a guy like Shayne Van Ness, who's been in the game for a really, really long time, a crafty veteran. So for me that was, that was a guy that I was most impressed with through the weekend.

Shane Sparks

What are some things Jordan that you observe from a technical standpoint that are the most different compared to when you wrestled at Nebraska?

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, you know, I think scrambling has become a significant portion of wrestling, and if you can't scramble, then you better be pretty dang solid in every position where you could manage, like the best guys can manage, to prevent the scrambles, but the but there's an X factor there that not only if you know how to manage scrambles, but you can out wrestle your opponent in these sequences. It gives you supreme confidence, because what you see is a lot of guys, if they let's say Jesse Mendez in the finals against Sergio Vega. Jesse is is a buzz saw. He's usually mowing down the field, heavy hands, tons of pressure and pace, getting into leg attacks and finishing clean. He was really, really conservative with a shot selection in the finals, and really only gave himself one opportunity to score, which was in the overtime period when he finally got into a deep attack and and that Sergio's best position, right? So it's like because he couldn't finish quickly on the single leg, all of a sudden, it turned into a dicey position, and it favored the guy who was most comfortable in the scramble. So Jesse was looking for stalemate, and Sergio was looking for the score to finish the sequence, and it ended up being favorable to Vega. So you got to know how to scramble from every position. You got to be not only a quick finisher, but you got to be able to finish clean, even if things get chaotic.

Shane Sparks

You won the Hodge trophy. You get a Hodge Trophy vote. Who does your vote go to in 2026

Jordan Burroughs

Mitchell Mesenbrink. I mean, the field was awesome. I think more undefeated wrestlers this year than I've really ever seen since I've become a hodge voter. But the guy who I was most impressed with, not only throughout the season, but at the NCAA Tournament, he's just scary to wrestle. There's not many people that you wrestle in your life. I don't know how I'm gonna possibly beat this guy. He's gonna shoot a ton once he gets to the leg. He's become a really proficient finisher. He has really heavy hands. He's got an insane level of pace and pressure. And I. Watch a major or not major tech fall guy, Mikey Caliendo, in the finals, who is as sturdy and difficult scoring as anyone in the entire NCAA. And so if he can do that, there's no question to me that he's the he's the best guy. I did

Shane Sparks

something a little bit different this year. Jordan. Everybody wants to get their pictures taken with the champs, and that's great. This year, I got my picture taken with all 10 guys. It took third place. I love third place. I just think that's the perch on the podium where the true character is revealed. Looking at your career, you were a guy that would always get the next best thing, but before winning those two national titles, you took third you got the six World golds. You also got three world bronze. Speak to me about third place.

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, Third. Third place takes a lot of resolve. As you mentioned, Shane, it takes a lot of character in order for someone to lose a wrestling match and have to come back in the same weekend and for redemption, right? There's not really a long opportunity for a lot of these guys to settle themselves, to be refocused, to now piece together the dream that was just taken away from them within 24 hours. It's it's a really difficult thing to do and and most often, you see the guys build and gain momentum throughout the tournament. And so the guy that wins it isn't always the best guy in the weight class, maybe for that weekend, but probably, if you wrestled the tournament on numerous occasions. Things could shake out differently in a few different occasions, but the third place guy, to me, has always been the guy that has been able to show resolve in the face of adversity. They've been the guy that is usually really diligent in their work habits, because typically, when you take third you wrestle more matches than anyone in the tournament. And then lastly, I would say is, you know, we always talk about odd numbers. That's what we're always shooting for when we go into a tournament, because when you take first, third, fifth or seventh, you know that you won your last match of the tournament. And everyone likes to leave feeling victorious that last match, getting their hand raised. And so, I mean really, any, any odd number place i i think is awesome, because you get an opportunity to win your last match, but particularly third, because that means you've only lost one match on the front side, which we oftentimes know can be extremely close. Look at PJ Duke, for example, right blitzed everyone in the field up until the semi final, and then Blitz to everyone on the backside. And I think to most people, it's, it's evident, like we would ask, who's the best guy at 157 I don't think everyone would say the champion or both finalists, right? I think, I think there would still be a lot of people who would leave PJ Duke in the conversation as being the best 57 pounder in the country this year.

Shane Sparks

When you look at 2008 that was an amazing bracket. You fell in the semifinals to Brent Metcalf. He came back and took third What do you remember from your journey that year to third place?

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, one Brent Metcalf was extremely tough. You know, I got the first take down in that semifinal, and then he kicked my butt the rest of the way. You know, he was the Mitch messing break of our era was was ranked in Metcalf. He was really tough, high pace, high lots of pressure on the backside. I remember there were a couple of guys that I beat on the backside that really difficult. One was J.P. O'Connor in the consolation semis, who was who ended up being a national champion the following year. Or excuse me, two years later, in 2010 at 157 pounds. And then in the bronze medal match, I beat Josh Churella, who was returning national runner up, and from 2007 at 149 and so I just remember the caliber of the guys that I had to wrestle on the backside. But honestly, to be completely transparent, Shane, is I believe that third was probably right, the right fit for me at about that time, I didn't think I could beat Brent. I didn't think I was as good as he was. You know, Bubba Jenkins had beaten me that season as well. And so that was kind of right where I believe that I stood in that in that space where I'm like, okay, these two guys are really good. I'm not really sure if I can beat them. I know I'm getting closer. But from that point on, when I got third in the NCAA tournament that year, I never, I never looked back. That was a year that kind of gave me the level of resolve and belief in myself that I needed in order to take the next level in my

Shane Sparks

wrestling after that first year at Nebraska, Jordan, what clicked? I mean, how were you able to make such significant jumps,

Jordan Burroughs

confidence, lot of confidence boosting from wrestling quality partners in the room. Here's the biggest catalyst. Yes, and I mentioned this story on a few different occasions, but my freshman year, my true freshman year, I broke into the lineup. Midway through the season. We went to the NCAA tournament. I was a qualifier. I took third at Big 12. I went to the NCAA tournament. I went one and two, so I was DMP. But during that tournament, one of my teammates, who was a sophomore, Paul Donahoe, was an NCAA champion. He beat Sam Hazewinkel in the finals of the NCAA tournament. So I'm a true freshman, he's a sophomore. He was our only all American on the team, and I believe Nebraska finished like 17th in the country that year. The following year, we had five all Americans, and we won a team trophy. He was pretty much the trailblazer for everyone on our team. We all saw him win, and we were like, man, if he can do it, why not us? This guy trains with us. He runs with us. We hang out with him on the weekends, like we see absolutely everything he does and we are matching his pace. But do we have his belief? And so when we saw that he could do it, it really changed our perspective of our team and of ourselves and and we really started to compete as if we were capable of doing it as well. And so it was a game changer. So that first year was just it was just Paul in 2007 and in 2008 it was Stephen Dwyer, Jordan, Burroughs, Brandon Browne, Craig Brester, and we were rolling and Paul Donahoe again, and we finished fourth in the nation in a pretty deep field. So sometimes you need someone to do it before you to give you permission to do it. And that was, that was when we all started to train and prepare as if we believe that it was possible. And we all just took off the very next year.

Shane Sparks

You're from Sicklerville, New Jersey. How did you end up in Lincoln, Nebraska, of all places.

Jordan Burroughs

So my best buddy, Vince Jones, he was in NCAA All-American at Nebraska 2009 at 184 we're actually next door neighbors. We wrestle same high school, same youth club, and he was a year older. He was a two time New Jersey state champ. He was nationally ranked. Mark Manning came to South Jersey to recruit him, and because we were best friends, I was everywhere he went. So every practice I was at his house. We were next door neighbors. So when Manning came to visit him, I was there and I got to meet manning the same day he got to meet Manning, and instantly, kind of put this, the seed in my heart, like, man, maybe I could go wrestle with the Division I level. Maybe I, you know, have the ability to to venture into to college wrestling. And he was my best buddy. I wanted to follow him. So I admired him so much. Whatever he did I wanted to do. And so when he went out to Nebraska year earlier, he basically put in a word for me, like, Hey, you got to come back and visit my buddy like he has potential. And at the time, I hadn't really done anything worthy of of telling people about I had a very little resume going into my junior year of high school, but from that time on, when I start seeing him be recruited again, it kind of propelled me to to go pursue something bigger than myself. I was always motivated by excellence in the ability to go get something great, like not by fear, like I never was afraid of being insignificant. I was more so intoxicated by the by the thought of being more than I currently was, and so that that pushed me and motivated me as a kid.

Shane Sparks

Did you go on any other visits?

Jordan Burroughs

No, that was my only visit. Only went to one place. I didn't go. I had no visits in the fall of my senior year. I didn't go visit Nebraska until April of my senior year, and and it was the only place. And by then, all the scholarship money for all other institutions was already accounted for. And so I basically was like, Nebraska is going to offer me a scholarship, done deal. I don't even need to see it. Just give me a pen. Tell me where to sign I'm in.

Shane Sparks

I always like to ask guys the what ifs like, what if you didn't go to Nebraska? Where would you have gone? And it sounds like that was never even really a possibility.

Jordan Burroughs

No, it wasn't. You know it was. I got lucky at Nebraska because Mark Manning was really recruiting two guys ahead of me. One was Bubba Jenkins and the other was Darian Caldwell, right, who both national champions. Mark had the wherewithal and the vision that these guys were going to be elite level talents, and I was at the bottom tier of those guys. But when those guys went, decided to go to Penn State, North Carolina State, well, then Mark had some additional scholarship money available. He's like, Hey, listen, I believe, I believe in you. I believe that you have the potential to to be a champion here. And so we'd like to, we like to offer you a scholarship. And so so for me, it was like, done, I'm in. But it was a, I was, it was just a perfect combination of grit and and fundamental principles with. I with a lot of recruits who were diamonds in the rough, right? Our guys were from South Dakota and North Dakota and Kansas and Iowa and all these places where it was just all about hard work, grit and determination and and that was kind of what appealed to me. I wasn't I wasn't ever a really flashy guy. I was always someone who was dedicated to substance, because I grew up in a working class environment. My dad was a carpenter, my mom was a worked in a in a local union. So like for me, it was always hard work. Be determined outwork the people who have more than you. That was kind of what we were rooted in Nebraska. So it worked for us in

Shane Sparks

45 years, when you hear the name Mark Manning, what will be top of mind,

Jordan Burroughs

just phenomenal man, extraordinary leader, fiercely loyal. Just had the ability to evolve throughout his career. I mean, we're seeing you, don't. You rarely see this, where guys have glimpses and flashes of greatness on multiple pockets of their career. Right? We had our last two team trophies were in in 2008 and 2009 and then now, back to back, 2025, 2026, so his ability to go and find the right leaders in his room, the right wrestlers, but also the right the right coaches. He's done a really good job leading the men underneath of him and developing talent at a really high level. I think that Nebraska has been able to pull some solid recruits throughout Mark's tenure, but the guys that he's done the most with haven't been the guys that were the highest on the big boards coming out of high school. He's really got a knack for developing people

Shane Sparks

you're from out east. Your wife Lauren is from out east. Maybe it was the plan all along. But how difficult was it to leave Lincoln and and what do you recall from that conversation? Was he surprised? Was he? Was he hurt? How tough was it for you to make that conversation happen?

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, that's actually a really good question. You know, he was, uh, I think he wasn't surprised. I thought he I think he understood it was during a time where COVID had begun, and, you know, my my dad, was dealing with some health issues that we wanted to be closer to him. And I think once COVID came into into play, it kind of disrupted all of our lives, and we started to recognize that man, sports, work, all these things can be taken away at any moment. And we were isolated in Nebraska, far from family, it was, it was unsafe to travel, and it was just difficult to kind of get around, to see the people that you cared about. And so we're kind of stuck in the house. And as we felt that isolation, we were like, man, wouldn't it be nice to be around family, to be able to see our parents more regularly, to have a life that wasn't just solely rooted in wrestling, but we could, you know, have a holistic approach to the things that we felt were going to nurture our hearts and souls. And so we're like families, date nights with one another, you know, being able to have a bit of more intimacy in our marriage to, you know, just being around more of a a community of people that included our families. So she's from Buffalo, she's five hours away. My parents were in South Jersey, and so when we started to think about places that made sense for us, it was we never really even shopped around. If it was about finding the best wrestling room, we would have went to Penn State. But for us, it was we want to find a place where we have good leaders, we have good partners, and where we can be close to our family. And so Penn and the PRTC made the most sense, and I sat down and had a conversation with Mark about it, and I was reluctant to share, because I'm like, man, how's he gonna feel? I've been here for almost 15 years, but I think he kind of recognized it was coming. And so it was a very easy conversation, and I think because I was honest and transparent with them, it made it made our departure a lot smoother and a lot healthier. And so when I had the conversation, we were like, we're not going to leave now, but in a year from now, let's gear up for the last run together, 2021 Olympic trials, and let's see what we can do. And I'm going to always honor you guys and everything that that's happened here at Nebraska for me. And by the way, I'm not going to a direct competitor. I think that was kind of a major part of it too, right? When you have guys that RTCs are tricky because no one wants to go to a competitor of their alma mater like it still means a lot, although you're wrestling a completely different style in a completely different system, it still means a lot to people to go to compete in. At places that you may have considered opposition at some point during your college career, right? So it's it's just different. It's just different. So I'm like, Man, this is great Penn is in the Ivy League. I don't really have to worry about these guys being a competitor, a direct competitor in Nebraska. It just works for us.

Shane Sparks

Mention your father, Leroy, passed away in January 2025 What do you miss most about him? Jordan, and if you had just five minutes, you got five minutes with your dad one more time. What do you want to talk about? Yeah, you know,

Jordan Burroughs

my dad was, was probably the last man on earth that really just would call me just to tell me how proud of him, of me, he was right. Just, you know, I miss, I miss having conversations with him. He was the first person I shared any level of success that I had. So whether it was, you know, my son beacon, watching him wrestle, or, you know, I was coming back from a tournament, showing him the videos talking about wrestling, or the NCAA tournament, the football season, any of the little things, I just missed being able to call him and and share my success and just hearing I'm proud of you, right? So you you shift into a distinct role now, where I become the patriarch of my family. My mom now lives with us, and, you know, I take care and provide for a lot of my family, and so it's a I just, I just miss being able to have a conversation with them and chop it up and tell them about the things that we're working on and what we're doing. You know, just hearing I'm proud of you, because now I'm that guy, right? I'm the guy that's that's constantly and consistently pouring into the people in my life, and so sometimes because of it, you know, it's, it's hard as a leader, when you're doing all the pouring, you need people to pour into you in order to maintain a full cup, to to continue to be able to deliver grace and and structure for the people that you're responsible for

Shane Sparks

last NCAA tournament, some of the stall calls lack thereof, the bricks, the video reviews. It sparked quite a bit of debate these last few days. What is a wrestling debate? Jordan? That fires you up the most

Jordan Burroughs

I got one, I think, and this is the one rule change I'd like to see if I could change the rules. One, the stalling calls were egregious, bro, they were crazy. I was like, there's, there's tactic, and there's a tactic in just controlling center and folks out whether people like it or not. It's, it's, it's a lack of action, but if you just push people around, then it's perceived as if you want to wrestle more, right? And for me, perception has been warped into reality, because the only way that you can show me that you really want to wrestle is if you're taking valiant attempts to get to the legs, not just to get to ties, not just to set some not just to set up a sequence, but you're taking risk creating sequences and opportunities for yourself to score. But the one, the one rule that I would change is I would make overtime just like an additional period. I make it like basketball. So overtime is not sudden death or sudden victory. The first score wins. It's an additional two minutes on the clock, and you wrestle the entire two minutes, so whoever scores the most points in the two minutes is the winner. That's it. It's just an additional two minute period. It's not first score, because at that point, if there's a start, I've seen overtime matches this year get ended with stalls or cautions. So it just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense that way. I think you should just put the additional two minutes on the clock and make it a full period. Whoever scores the most at the two at the end of the two minutes is the winner. That's how we avoid a Duke situation.

Shane Sparks

Do you like the ride outs?

Jordan Burroughs

No, I don't because, because it's, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think, I think I would rather see the ride outs done this way. Maybe, maybe you flip a coin and then you do 30-30 from your feet, because the ride outs really don't make a ton of sense, because as soon as someone gets an escape, they just stand around. So let's just say it takes you four seconds to get an escape. You're like, all right, done. I'm gonna stand around for 26 seconds and vice versa. The other guy now has to, in turn, get an escape in three seconds, or which we rarely saw, guys will choose neutral in the second period and then go try to get a takedown. What I did notice was no one was even an i. Intent on trying to ride from the top position in the two 30-second periods. Most guys were just like, I'm gonna cut them. I'm gonna try to ride them as long as I can with 1012 seconds, and I'll cut them. I also didn't see this week, and I'm sure it happened. I just, I wasn't a witness to it. Is both guys riding one another out for your full 30 seconds, and then

Shane Sparks

I don't think that happened. Yeah, I don't recall ever seeing that. I'm sure it

Jordan Burroughs

has happened. I didn't see it. I didn't see I'm like, man, you're telling me that neither guy is good enough on top to be able to ride your opponent for only 30 seconds. Like, I don't feel like that's a significant amount of time, but I'm like, if you can't ride someone for 30 seconds. It's going to be hard to be like, supremely elite in this game, unless you're because I feel like everyone's good on their feet. There was not one guy that I watched this weekend, especially in the in the finals, and I'm like, yep, this guy's no good on his feet. He can only wrestle on the mat. Every single guy was good from every position. Just think about how often we said this year, hasn't given up a single takedown. 100% bonus rate, 99% bonus rate. Hasn't given up a takedown in entire college career, undefeated, right? So like these guys are there. They're everyone's good on their feet. The X Factor is being good on top. When Jax Forrest got the last take down against Ben Davino, and he could ride him for the entire the remainder of the period, when Yonger Bastida was arguing, literally arguing, with Kevin Dresser. Kevin Dresser selling to go neutral. He decides to go down. Isaac Trumble rides him out for the entire period and and just eliminates his ability to even be within the match. Like being good on top is such an X factor in both freestyle and folk style that it just makes me want to spend so much more time wrestling from the top position.

Shane Sparks

Stories from the Resilite, joined by Jordan Burroughs, Jordan, you've been around so many great wrestling minds putting you on the spot again. Got you backed up to the edge. The best wrestling mind you've ever been around,

Jordan Burroughs

best wrestling mind I've ever been around my my age. My peer is, I would say, Jordan Oliver. Jordan Oliver's is, is a wizard. He's literally a wizard in in positions, and he's got an encyclopedia of of movements based on feel. So you can just show him like, Hey, I can't, I can't figure out how to free myself from this position or break down this guy's hands and penetrate his defense. And he's just like, oh, here, let me feel. Show me this. Or what about elbow here? So like he has, he has so much depth and complexity and every single position really solid. I'd also say a guy like Joey McKenna, also another guy that I've been around that pretty much knows every single wrestling position. He can go, he can lace, he can throw, he can he can duck. He can shoot both sides of the body like literally every single sequence in wrestling he's, he knows, understands or has, has some level of of efficiency within

Shane Sparks

you have five kids, if you had to show your kids one of your college matches and one of your international matches. Which two matches are you picking

Jordan Burroughs

college match? I'd show them my quarter final from my senior year of college, versus Scott Winston of Rutgers. That was really, I called that mass Jordan, that was that was talking

Shane Sparks

about this. My guess is, Jordan, he wakes up to this day at least three times here at 230 in the morning and just goes, Huh? And I'm not sure if Scott, he's married these days, what his situation is, but my guess is it's the point now where his wife just looks at him and goes, Jordan. And he goes, Yeah, I'm good. And then goes back to sleep. I have never in my career broadcasting seen somebody put it on another human being like that. I mean, that that was borderline illegal. Yeah, that

Jordan Burroughs

was that was violent, that was violent, but it was one of those matches. It meant a lot to me, because Scott was from New Jersey. I was from New Jersey. He was a year younger than me, but he was a prodigy as a kid. He never lost a match in high school. He's a three time state champ, and only reason he wasn't a four timer is because he got hurt his freshman year. But he was someone that everyone admired from our era, our generation, our area of the country. And so for me, like I would, I would concoct storylines in my in my mind, about who someone was and what they thought of me, in order to give me an edge when I competed. And what that did was it made me laser focus. Focused, and it also made me wrestle with a little bit of more violence and aggression, which was always a good thing because of my style of wrestling, just kind of attributed to that, that level of violence being necessary to in order to inflict the type of fear. There's something to be said about being able to instill fear in your opponents, like when they think that you're going to shoot, and they know that the shots are going to be hard, and then on top of it, you are who they believed you were. It's, that's scary, that's scary. And so that's, that was one of those matches where I'm like, All right, I'm gonna go out and wrestle as hard as I possibly can. And we're back on the East Coast. We're in Philly. He's from Jersey. I'm from Jersey. I want to show that I've made the most progress in my wrestling more than any single person from New Jersey in the last five years.

Shane Sparks

How about internationally?

Jordan Burroughs

Internationally, there's a match. I was actually just watching this match with David Carr. It was from the World Cup in 2015 against Team Russia. I can't remember the guy's name. It's like Iakubali Shikhdzhamalov or something. Was I can't remember his last name, but it was 2015 World Cup, la Team Russia, one of the most finely executed matches I ever had. Wrestled hard, gave nothing, and pushed the pace and beat him up. It was good match.

Shane Sparks

How did you battle self doubt?

Jordan Burroughs

That's a That's a good question. I you know faith really in the most simplistic answer would be faith was always the most helpful way for me to to be able to navigate the treacherous waters of who you are, who you want to become, and the disconnect and the chasm between those two. All right, for me, there was a level of imposter syndrome when I was young, and I started getting good, and I started to discover my powers and my abilities, but there was this intoxication with success, because I've gone from obscurity to recognizing that well thought out, structured, organized curriculum paired with An elite work ethic were going to help me become better and achieve greatness. And the closer I got to it, the more I wanted. And because of it, I started to win at an especially high rate. But then I started losing, right? So I went four or five years without losing a single match, and then all of a sudden, things started getting harder, and I was getting everyone's best match, and I was getting older, and I started to doubt, Man, am I too old? Have I lost a step? Am I no longer able to compete with these guys at the highest level? And my I had an 11 year gap between World Championships, from 2011 my first to 2022 my last. And how I dealt with it best was one giving myself permission to fail. I think at a young age, I thought that every loss was an indictment on my abilities and a stain on my resume and on my legacy, and so I wore it heavily, and what people thought of me was really important, so I needed to give myself permission to lose and pair that with a turning my audience inward, as opposed to outward, like I what people thought of me meant a lot to me. So when I would compete and I would compete poorly, immediately I'd be on social media to gauge what the world thought of me and sometimes your rejection really was difficult for me to to reconcile with. It was really, it was really heavy on me. So I would say, give myself permission to lose one is thinking less about what people thought of me. And then I would say next would be surrounding myself with men and women of faith that was a really important part to me, is I trusted my team, and they were great leaders. And when I would lose, they would give me the stern correction that was necessary, and they would have vulnerable conversations with me, and they would be brutally honest, because it was necessary in order for me to get to the next step. They had to not sugar coat their approach, but they had to give me constructive criticism in a in a gracious way, but also a way in which I understood, hey, listen, if you continue down this path, more losses are coming, but if you change now, anything is possible, and that's really how I sustained my career for so long as I humbled myself to the to the point where I was willing to ask questions and learn from anyone who felt like they had something to share, and then I had the discernment, because of the wisdom and knowledge that I accumulated, to know exactly what was helpful and what would what needed to be discarded. that was a game changer for me. Is I needed the right people to tell me exactly what I needed, and I was always willing to listen like I never thought I knew better. I just was always willing to do what any person in a position of leadership asked of me that was helpful

Shane Sparks

regarding those conversations. Is there one or two that especially stands out when you reflect on that man.

Jordan Burroughs

There's so many, there's there's so many. I'm just thankful for great leadership to be, to be absolutely honest with you, from my high school coach and Rick Coss, who taught me how to be a man and to operate with honor. He made us wear shirt and ties to every single away duel. When we were in high school, he started to provide us with Weigh in food. Post weigh ins, we learned how to take care of our bodies. He'd pick us up from our houses and bring us to the wrestling room at 6am before school to get us additional workouts in to get into college, University of Nebraska. You know Mark Manning. He was one of the I spent the most in that 15 year period. He was there was no person on the planet I had spent more time with, and then Mark Manning, and he was always willing to do whatever was necessary. There were many days where I thought he was a maniac, like, absolutely insane. I'd be in the locker room in a towel, about to shower after practice was over, and he'd be like, Hey, I got something I want to show you. I got, I got, I this is gonna work for you. We need to get these reps in. Like, you need to do this is going to be helpful, and I don't want to forget it. So, like, get your stuff back on. Like, Manny, I got study hall, we got dinner. Everyone else is done. And he'd be like, it's gonna work. Like, just get your shoes on. Come back, he'd be literally scouring the room. I'd have to hide from him. Like I could see when a practice was over, he'd be scanning the room looking for me, like, hey. JB, Give me. Give me 30 minutes. Give me 30 minutes. That 30 minutes turn to an hour before I know it, everyone's gone. I'm the last person in the room, and I thought he was crazy, but when I stood on top of the podium at the end of the season, I was like, All right, he knew. He knew what he was talking about. He was right. And so, you know, there's just so many little moments like that, just someone holding you accountable continuously and consistently. Is it's such a big, big gift that anyone could have. And so that's why I'm thank most thankful for those coaches that I had in my life.

Shane Sparks

Could you ever pick out a match where you learn the most, a specific match that changed the way you thought?

Jordan Burroughs

That's a great question. Wow. Um, I don't know. I don't know. Shane, that's, that's a good question. I'd have to think about that one a little bit longer, because there's so many lessons that I've had, but some big matches, I mean, some big matches that I've had in my career that were game changers for me. When I beat Dustin Schlatter for the first time my junior year, 2009 he had beaten me four times before. I was on four against him, and I beat him in the finals of the Kaufman-Brand Open in Omaha my junior year, and I never lost another match again in college. And then my going into my second year on the international team on a senior level in 2012 i in the finals of the Dave Schultz international I was wrestling Trent Paulson. Well, Trent Paulson had spent a year at the University of Nebraska training, and just a few years before 2009 when he made a world team, and he used to beat the hell out of me every single day as an RTC athlete. And then fast forward, three years later, I'm wrestling him in the finals of a tournament. I'm like, There's no way I can beat this guy. I'm a fraud. And I'm like, I'm a world champion, but I'm only a world champion because I hadn't had the wrestle Trent, and he used to kick my butt all the time. And he probably still can beat me, because he knows me well. Well, I went out there and I beat him. And needless to say, it was, it was one of those pivotal moments where I'm like, Man, I actually am who I think I am. And it was like, I was like, All right, all right. I got permission to do it. And then a few weeks later, we wrestled again in the finals in Cuba at the Cerro Pelado. And that one was like a definitive victory. It wasn't close at all. I just, I put it on him, got to his legs, finished clean. He couldn't touch me, couldn't have pinched me that I was feeling like, I was feeling like, all right, I'm the guy. So, I mean, there's just so many points in my career that I learned that I'm tough, I'm gritty. I can do hard things. I've got good skills. I can scramble Well, you know, all the things I'm really just I'm thankful for, for those moments, because some of them weren't always victories. Some of them were losses, but I learned about who I was and how to get back to operating with enthusiasm, even after losing something that was was really meaningful

Shane Sparks

to me. How were you able to do that? Jordan, well. Like, how do you do that? I mean, was there a thing or two that you were very consistent in? I mean, people talk about the ways they train and this and that, but is there anything specifically that you did when you reflect on your career and say, I did this? And, man, it was everything from a process standpoint.

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, I never cheated like I never cheated. I can say that definitively and with complete honesty is I never cheated the game. I never, I never, I never took any shortcuts. I never compromised for my with my training habits. I never opposed my coaching staff. I never fell out of love with the process. I never you know, took any illegal substances. I never you know. I did everything fairly and honestly. I never cheated the game. And so, like, that's, that's something I can say that gives me complete peace with my career. Is like I did everything the right way, and I did it with an abundance of care, and I maximized my effort, and on top of it, I did it from a place with no lineage and no championship pedigree. And so my personal career is I believe I did the most with the least. Like when people ask who they I don't believe I'm the greatest wrestler of all time I've seen. I've wrestled with guys that have a better command of particular positions than I have seen guys who who they understand scenarios and sequences and and positioning in certain areas better than I do, but, but I've made a commitment to being proficient in every single position I made. I made an effort to to learn how to attack and defend in every position. I made an effort to maximize the abilities that I had, and to to to commit entirely to a style of wrestling that was beneficial based on the attributes that I possessed, and I did it, and I did it for for a lot longer than most people could. And so, you know, that's my when, when people call me the greatest wrestler of all time. I'm like, greatest wrestler, if you if you compile all of these attributes, right? And so it's toughness and grit and determination and flexibility and strength and explosiveness and conditioning and grasp of technique, like all the things paired with right, clearly winning in the resume. But when it comes to just being a pure wrestler, there's plenty of wrestlers that I've that I've watched, and I'm like, Oh, this guy fried again, satiev, John Smith, or Kenny Monday or Saturday live, or all these guys that I'm watching and watching wrestle. And I'm like, Damn, I can't do that. That's good. And so yeah, when it comes like, when I when I when I describe a wrestler, when I think of a wrestler, it's, it's way deeper than just technique. On top of the fact that, you know, I've been able to be at the forefront of the perpetuating and propelling this sport into a new stratosphere, on a global level, that's what I take pride in is what I've done with where I've come from, and my ability to amplify wrestling on the global stage. But you know, there's plenty. There's so many good wrestlers out there. It's hard to just quantify who the greatest of all time is. I'm just a fan of the sport. I'm thankful that I have a role in the pantheon of greats, and that when you talk about the sport of wrestling, you can't tell its story without without mentioning me. But other than that, I mean that's that's really it for people even consider me in the conversation of greats is like, it's crazy, considering everyone who's ever put on a pair of wrestling shoes, it's, it's insane. Like, so when people call me, when people are like, Hey, this is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, like, yeah, debatable, but, but, man, it's, what an honor. What an honor. Thank you. Thank you. That's pretty cool.

Shane Sparks

What was the biggest threat to your excellence, success.

Jordan Burroughs

Success. Because when you win, like, it's but I was the opposite when, when I won, I wasn't like, oh, great, I can rest now. It's like, I gotta do it again. I gotta do more more. I need more. I want to try it again. I like beating people at things, all right, like I like to win. Even people say all the time, you got to hate to lose. But, yeah, of course I hate to lose, but everyone loses. Losing is net neutral. That's pretty much not 100% of the population has lost to something, but not everyone's been great at something. People talk about. Humility. And like most people aren't humble because, because they are, they're virtuous. Most people are humble because they're not good at anything. They're not good enough at anything to really brag about. And so when I think of losing, losing is just a status quo. Everyone loses, but winning, there's something special about winning, because not everyone can do it, like everyone can try, but not everyone has the capacity and ability to win an extremely high level. So that was motivating for me. It was captivating. And I wanted to try to find ways in which I could evolve to stay ahead of the curve and stay at the top of my game. And so that's what it was. It was like me trying to find continuous wrinkles. Man, how can I get in better shape? How can I have more mental toughness, more mind and physical body control, more better spatial awareness and be more scary. And how can I preserve it for as long as I possibly can? Like I love the game, I just love the game of wrestling. So that's what it became for me, was the desire to win significantly outweighed my fear of defeat. Losing is it's, it is what it is, but, but winning, winning is freaking awesome.

Shane Sparks

When you get a fall Jordan, you get the slap of the Resilite. What is your most memorable pin?

Jordan Burroughs

World Cup, 2018 Iowa City, I got a pin in the finals of the World Cup against Azerbaijan. I had like a takedown. I went, ran corner, shelf leg ran down. Hip guy went sit out. For some reason, he went, like, short sit and went something back, and got the fall in the finals. And it was a it was a big part of our team victory. We went on to win the World Cup that year for the first time in like 30 years, or something crazy. It was an awesome moment for us. So, yeah, most memorable fall against Azerbaijan finals of the 2018 World Cup in Iowa City.

Shane Sparks

Who was the guy, Jordan that you always knew ultimately you were going to win against, but you hated to wrestle him. Who was that guy for you? It was like, oh gosh, this guy will never, ever quit.

Jordan Burroughs

Oh, Andrew Howe, 100% Andrew Howe, hated wrestling. Andrew Howe, I hated it so bad. He wrestled so hard, my neck would be sore for a week afterwards. And he was just really sturdy, stout in positions I couldn't get through his hips. He defended my doubles well, and if I missed, he punished me every single time. And so I never actually lost to him, but it felt like it like, when I think about my career, I think about, I'm like, Man, did I lose him? Because that's how tough he was. Is that I felt like some of my wins were losses, because it hurt so bad, badly. It was a it was a lot, it was a lot of work wrestling him. But he was, I wrestled in the finals of world trials in 11, finals of Olympic trials in 12, finals again, of Olympic trials in 2016 and I wrestled him in the finals of the Midlands and 2011 and he was just one of those guys that I hated to see coming when I saw him my weight class, because I knew he was going to beat everyone. And he always found a way to make it to me. And I'm like, like, I know I can beat him, but it's gonna be like, 6264, and I'm gonna have to wrestle every second of the entire match. So he was a guy I didn't really enjoy wrestling.

Shane Sparks

I remember one of the conversations you and I had, Jordan, after one of those events, you told me once, I'll never forget this. You said I trained to beat Andrew Howe because I think he's the second best guy in the world. He told me that at some, some point in your career, he was a hammer.

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, he was tough man. He was he was a great wrestler. Had it not been for myself, dake Taylor, he would have been a guy that would have been on the world stage on many different occasions.

Shane Sparks

What separates good from Great? Belief?

Jordan Burroughs

Belief and it's, it's, it's twofold, belief in the moment, right? Belief gives you courage. It's just like if you, if you're if you, if you're a handsome man, and you got a great job, and you're successful, and you're good looking, and you smell good, and you dress well, when you walk into an event, you're going to command the room. You're going to go talk to the most beautiful woman in the room with no hesitation, no reservations at all. The same with wrestling is, if I believe in myself and my abilities, I'm going to take risks, I'm going to shoot. I'm going to mix it up in positions, and I'm going to believe that it's possible, regardless of the score to the final whistle. And that translates into how you live your life, how you navigate life, what you put into your body, the amount of sleep you're getting, what you what you watch, what you ingest, what you're listening. To who you spend your time around, the type of training habits that you have, like when you believe you can win, and it's possible to win, and you deserve to win, every single thing that you do in your life is in alignment with your capacity to reach your goals. And if you don't, then you're lying. It's really that simple, if you, if you don't, if you don't do everything right, you can't, you can't be a champion, and maybe you can win, but you can't be a champion. Champions, to me, are the guys who are low maintenance. They do everything right, to take care of themselves, they take care of the people around them, and they win with consistency. Those are the people, those are the people that I'd like to spend my time around, and that's what I always wanted to be, and that's what I wanted to possess.

Shane Sparks

I know you've had many, but who's the best teammate for whatever reason? Who's like the best teammate you've ever had on the mat? That's a good question.

Jordan Burroughs

Wow, man, I've had, I've had some great teammates. You know who? I'll kick it back to 2012 was Raymond Jordan, University of Missouri, two time All American. He was my training partner in the Olympics in 2012 and he was selfless. He was selfless like he would he would wash our wash my laundry. He would go get me food. He would bring me water back to my room. He would let me shoot 100 double legs on him in a practice. He would sit in the sauna with me. He would, he would massage my shoulders while we were in the sauna like he would. He would do absolutely anything if I left my wrestling shoes in my room. He'd go back, take an Uber back to the hotel to get my like anything that was necessary to to make sure that I was taken care of. He would do it. I feel like I'm forever indebted to him because of how he helped usher in my the commencement of my career. Yeah, he was, he was probably one of my best teammates I ever had.

Shane Sparks

If you were to have a conversation with yourself today, what are you 3737 Yep, 37 if he went back and had a conversation with an 18 year old, Jordan Burroughs, what are you telling that young man,

Jordan Burroughs

18 year old? JB, that's, that's dang that's tough. The answer I would say, to enjoy the enjoy the journey a little bit more along the way, right? Like one of the things, because I never cheated Shane, I carved out a great life for me, but I also missed out on a lot of life too, because I was so focused. I was so focused. So I didn't vacation, I wasn't I wasn't I didn't party, I didn't drink for freaking 12 years like it nothing i everything that I did was conducive to me putting together my best performances on the big stage, and so I would say, when I when I say to live. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it in a way, in a version of myself that would distract me or take away from my focus, I would do it in a fact of build relationships with the right people along your journey. I think that would be the piece of advice that I would give myself, is hang with the winners. Find the people who are who are equally yoked and who want to pursue this passion with you and cling to them closely, because those are the people that you're going to be most reliant upon. When it's all said and done right like this game ebbs and flows. So your circle, your coaches, your leadership, the staff, the people that you have around you, under you, above you, is it's constantly evolving. So I would have done a better job of going out to adventure. We were in Paris, France, instead of just laying in my room watching Netflix, getting ready for the tournament, I would have went in to the top of the Eiffel Tower, where I would have went in the Arc de Triomphe. I would have went and and explored the cities, and spent time and going to other events at the Olympic Games. And, you know, just being, being immersed in life and less so, just waiting for the next time that I was going to get an opportunity to win a match, right? It was, it was almost like a, you know, it's, it's, it's almost like being a thoroughbred, right? This, this champion horse, where you get taken all these places, and you just get brushed, and you get fed carrots, and then when it's time to go, they bring you out in the track. You go, win, do your job, and then right back into the trailer, like I would have, I would have tried to enjoy life a little bit more, in conjunction with knowing that I would still be prepared when the. Moment called for it.

Shane Sparks

You've talked about faith a couple of times. Tell me about your faith and how it's impacted your wrestling.

Jordan Burroughs

Yeah, for sure. Man, what, what a what a blessing it is to have met so much or so many men of wisdom and wise counsel so many men of faith, I've had great leadership in my career, as I mentioned to you guys, like Bill Zadick and, and, you know, Mark Manning and Brandon Slay and these guys who have mentored me and led me Well, and, and really, really, all men and Zeke Jones and my high school coach, Rick Coss. And you know, the one thing that I learned after 2012 is, this is when I first took a step into developing my own perspective and perception of who God was and what he meant to me, and how I could build a relationship with him. Is, after winning in 2012 I realized that man in this this quickly, I went from lightly recruited, no official visits only, went to Nebraska. Chose Nebraska because it was pretty much my only option. And now I graduated high school in 2006 six years, from six years of not getting recruited at all to now being two time NCAA champ, World Champ, Olympic champ, and just a short period of time, talk about being give handed the world, and such a small window of time, I realized that, man, I got it all. And I still feel, I wouldn't say, empty, but I don't feel fulfilled. I still feel like I'm pursuing, I'm chasing, and I'm I'm I'm striving to get something that's not really attainable. No matter how much you get, You're never satisfied. I tell people this all the time. They're like, hey, which, uh, which ring is most important, or which belt is most important? And I'm like, they're like, You got seven, which one's more important? I'm like, I should have nine, right? Our guys are like, well, you know, how much wrestling should we be doing? Should we be competing at these events? We want to win this thing. And I'm like, satisfaction comes from the pursuit and the challenge. It doesn't come from the victory. The victory is so short lived. From the time you get on, you walk off the mat. You're in a full sweat. You wipe yourself, you take your singlet off, you throw on your warm up. You get on the podium. They raise the American flag higher than all others. You bend yourself down. They put the medal around your neck. They play the national anthem. You get off, and then they bring on the next weight class. Like that's the only moment of like, jubilation and victory and excitement. You get a couple of, you know, post on social media, and you get asked to do some collaboration posts, and you get celebrated in the paper, but then it ends, and then all of a sudden it's like, All right, back to the drawing board. Can you do it again next year? And so I realized that fairly quickly into my career, and it gave me a sobering dose of perspective. And so it was kind of the time where my testimony began, and I started to to seek wise counsel who I was becoming, being handed the keys to USA Wrestling as this, as this leader and this role model, I realized that I had to to change my life, how I navigated it, how I treated the people around me, how I treated myself and and that was really a catalyst For so I started hanging with people who were who were good, and I looked at the people who had the best lives around me, who has the healthiest marriage, who has the most respectful children, who who is thriving most in their career, who's got the most influence in terms of being positive leaders, pillars in their community. And those, those were Christian men, to me, those are the people who were, who were leading the lives that I desired to live. And so I started to dive deeper into the word and my Bible, learning more, attending church fellowship, Bible studies, and it helped give me perspective, because the storms were coming in my wrestling career, because I didn't lose my first senior level match until 2014 and like almost five years without losing a match. And so because the storm started coming, I got married and I had kids, and like all of the difficult things in life, all started to compound, and my faith was the only way that helped me navigate through through that treacherous time. And so thankful, super thankful for the people who have led me and and man, for who I, who I was able to become in that process.

Shane Sparks

Behind every great man is a great woman. I mean, Lauren's been with you every step of the way. What kind of advice Jordan would you give to a young man getting married,

Jordan Burroughs

ooh, find your wife that loves wrestling. That's number one. Make sure your wife loves wrestling. If you love if you love this game, because wrestling is is different. It's weird, like freaking. I'm talking the the. Trivial stuff, trivial stuff from, you know, skin disease, right? staph, MRSA, ringworm, all the things learning how to have someone who can navigate that those ventures with you, to the endless amount of travel, to the quirky things of of waking up early for run, sitting in the sauna, cutting weight, meal prepping to to you know, watching wrestling constantly, like all the things that are necessary in order to be great at this sport, you need someone who supports it as someone so find yourself, yourself a woman that loves wrestling, too, if she does and love wrestling, find us. Find yourself a woman who really loves you and is committed to helping you achieve your goals. When I met Lauren, she was pretty dang special herself, and she she was an exceptional leader in her community, and she was pretty much the greatest woman I had ever met. And I'm like, Man, I'm 24 years old. I'm at the peak of my wrestling career, and I'm uncertain of what the future is going to look like, but I know one thing, I'm not going another day without being married to this young lady, and I want her to be there with me for this entire journey. And luckily she obliged. And so it was kind of one of those moments in my life where, you know, when people say, when, if you know, you know, it was kind of one of those things that I was like, she's awesome. I love her. I'm not sure what the future is going to hold for us, but I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to go full send. And it was one of the greatest decisions I ever made in my entire life. And so 13 years of marriage, five kids later, lots of heartbreak, but lots of success with one another, she's been an extraordinary partner for me to from everything she she is in charge of the preservation of the Burroughs legacy that's really important to her. She's like, I want to make sure that everyone knows who you are, what you mean to the sport and but I also, she also holds me accountable. I'm not the champ here. Still got I'm dad and I'm husband, and they're things that I need to do and remember and and honor, and that's what I love as well. She's, she's a phenomenal woman. I'm a very lucky man.

Shane Sparks

In regards to wrestling, Jordan, how would you finish this? I believe

Jordan Burroughs

that's it. That's it. You don't have to. I believe that that, that that entails and encompasses so many, so many different things. It's, it's, that's it just those two words right there, I believe will will carry you through such dark times in life and help you achieve the excellence that you you desire to attain. That's it, just those two words I believe

Shane Sparks

before I let you go. Just want a little rapid fire. If you were making a cross country trip and you could take three living people that you've never met, who would you pick?

Jordan Burroughs

Man, that's a great question. Wow, three living people that I've never met. I would probably take Matt McConaughey. I think he'd be fun to be around. He'd be cool. I would probably take like Kevin Hart. I think it'd be nice to have someone who was really funny on the trip to lighten up the mood. And then I would have to take, I would take, like, someone who was an outdoorsman. I take like Bear Grylls or someone like that, because we were gonna go on a cross country trip and we wanted to stop and, you know, go to a national park Yosemite or or, you know, some one of those places, he would come out and show us how to fish and kill our fish on the on and cook it, and all the things do all the outdoor stuff. So those three guys, Matt McConaughey, because he could talk his way into any single room. He's smooth, he's, a he's he's fun to be around, but he's also just a super cool guy. So he could navigate any room that we were in to get us what we needed, Kevin, because he would make it extremely funny for us the entire trip, and make us all laugh and keep it nice and light and then bear. Because if we wanted to actually do some outdoor events, we could, we could get out there. sleep in tents, venture, some white water rapids, all the

Shane Sparks

things. Who's your favorite sports team? My

Jordan Burroughs

favorite? I'm a Buffalo Bills fan. Who's your favorite bill? Josh Allen,

Shane Sparks

biggest pet peeve? No.

Jordan Burroughs

I would say lack of patience. Like a patience. I don't like when get when people are impatient for things. I'm just like good things come to those who wait, be patient.

Shane Sparks

What's the first job you ever had?

Jordan Burroughs

I worked at a beer distribution warehouse when I was when I was 18, in South Jersey.

Shane Sparks

Favorite music group,

Jordan Burroughs

ooh, Music Group, that's it. That's hard one to answer. Um, I don't know I would, I would say my favorite artist right now is Caleb Gordon. He's a Christian rapper.

Shane Sparks

of The check him out. Favorite movie all time for you, The Sandlot. For sure, you gotta you have a favorite quote,

Jordan Burroughs

ooh, I don't think so. I don't think so. I gotta think of something. How about a bucket list item? I'd like to go skydiving someday.

Shane Sparks

Awesome stuff. Jordan Burroughs, first guest here on the podcast, Stories from the Resilite. This was amazing, great story. Lot of perseverance and just some really good stuff from you. And really appreciate the time. This has been a lot of fun.

Jordan Burroughs

Thank you. Thanks. Shane, appreciate you, brother. You.