Jake Herbert | Episode 3

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability.

Jason Bryant

It's time for Stories from the Resilite, tales of triumph and tradition. Step onto the mat and into the moments that shaped wrestling history. It all comes to life on Stories from the Resilite. Here's your host, award winning wrestling broadcaster, Shane sparks.

Shane Sparks

And welcome back to Stories from the Resilite, our podcast. This is episode number three. Looking forward to this one, one of the great characters in this sport, rocking the headband. No surprise there two time national champ, 2012 Olympian, three time Big Ten champion, one of the all time greats at Northwestern in that Wildcat singlet, Jake Herbert, Jake, it's always great to see you looking forward to mixing things up a little bit.

Jake Herbert

Yeah, back at it. We had to start the podcast as we already going with gold before this, and we haven't recorded it all, so it's like, get it on there, man. Especially coming off a great NCAA is probably, like I said, one of the best every year. It's just, it's such great wrestling. But this year, just like every year, I don't understand how it just gets better and better and better. It is the greatest show, the greatest thing you got a tweet from Gomez was saying the same thing, Hey, I've wrestled in the Olympics. Hey, I've wrestled in the world champion but there's nothing like wrestling at the NCAA Championships. Man, to be on the stage there, to be in the finals, that's just

Shane Sparks

something special. Who are the guys that impressed you most?

Jake Herbert

Well, dude, the young freshman. What's that's, what's, what I love is how deep we're getting as a country, right? Jax Forrest, that was so impressive. Mitchell Mesenbrink is just his dominance continued. Penn State guys just with their poise and and get it, getting after it, man, it's there's just so many people out there that just wrestle at Michigan really impressed me, man, getting five All-Americans, five of the guys with their first time on there, you know, was great. Even Iowa, you know, you look at like the season, and they're not having the best season, they but they still are finishing strong and getting people because you got to forget, like, it's, it's not easy to be an All-American, right? It's like, we forget how hard that truly is. And there was a stat there of like, I think, is like, you have a better chance of getting a perfect score on the SAT. The odds are easier for you to get a perfect score on the SAT versus winning a All-American title, or, sorry, being an All-American in college, which is nuts. So I've always thought

Shane Sparks

Jake, the longer I do broadcasting in this sport, people don't understand how good you have to be to make that tournament. I mean, the guy that's oh and two is a major leaguer. I mean, this is the big leagues. You got to be so good. I did the Division III finals A little while back. That's a high level of wrestling. It is so tough to win matches. Let me ask you this, Jake, when you reflect back on your college career, what is something that you've come to understand now that you're older, been away from it a little bit where you were really, really good.

Jake Herbert

Well, mindset, right? Like, what made me, I think, so good, was my ability to go from this character, like, I'm a fun guy. Like, you ask anybody that are out there, like Jake Herbert, He's nice, he's kind, he's a fun guy, he's goofy, but when it's on the mat time, that's a different human being. So my ability to switch from keep it easy, have fun, tell me jokes, and then when I'm in the hole, I'm starting to get in the zone, being able to mentally prepare myself. And then when I'm out there and I slap hands, that's a different human being. And very few people have met that human being. You know, you get that from time to time. It's still hard to get that in the practice room, and I think that was the biggest thing, is I'm out there on the mat, I'm going all out like I that very rarely did I leave a wrestling match with anything in the tank. And if I left the wrestling match with something the tank, it's because I pinned you or I tech followed you, and I still had things in there. Because when you go all out versus holding back, it is nuts. And that's what we saw, like so many guys out there just going all out, letting it hang. And so that was, like a big thing, is that mindset of getting yourself ready versus bringing yourself down because you're only wrestling twice a day, so you can't show up at the tournament, like kill and then, like, you sit around from nine till noon, and your emotional energy is just drained by that you got to protect that. You got to make sure that that's there, that you can gear it up and then gear it back down.

Shane Sparks

What did you do in training your mind?

Jake Herbert

Oh, well, I've actually been making courses on this too, because I'm teaching it to my kids club and doing that. I think a lot of it was just internal, just and just how I was raised in my practice structure, right, having Ty Moore and Ray Brinzer as the angry fish wrestling Club, where they made it fun, and I was in the wrestling room a lot of times. I'm wrestling with Jared King, I'm wrestling with Troy Letters, I'm wrestling with Kurt Brenner. I'm wrestling with Phil Davis. I'm wrestling with Josh White, so I'm wrestling with Coleman Scott Mark McKnight. Like, that was our club. So, like. Yeah, my practice partners were tougher than most of the matches I was wrestling. And then just being able to have that mentality that we're in there, and we were going for world, you know, world titles after practice, we'd be like, All right, hey, first take down, gets the World Championship go. And we would do this on our own after practice was done just for, like, stupid bragging rights. So that that that was a huge part that played into it. But then, as you got to college, I'll never forget somebody sitting down and being like, All right, hey, what's the most important part? You have physical wrestling. You have the technical aspect of the skills, and then you have the mental approach. How many hours you guys work out with? Like, 15. How much was it physical? All we lifted here. How much was it technical? All we had wrestling here. How much was it mental? I was like, zero. It's like, oh my god. I never worked on that. It was just such a switch. It was like I started reading books, I started studying people. You want to talk about this psychology master Ben Askren is unbelievable at that. Like, I'm reading his book Extreme Ownership right now, and it's so great how he writes about these different paradox and he is unbelievable at this mindset up here. And you know, he was a competitor, and he made me better at that because I the better he was, the better I had to be. So it was great hope

Shane Sparks

that helps. And Askren And you had that battle, yeah, that was what your sophomore year,

Jake Herbert

sophomore year, his junior year. And you want to talk about how tough of a weight class that was. The next year, you know, he took first. He got me in that match. I took second. Mark Perry took third. And then the next year, the three of us were national champions. You know, 165 he said, Askren stayed at 74 I went up to 84 so that was, that was quite a weight class. And just that'SATwo time. You know, we're all two time national champs, me, Perry and Askren, all right, there in the same bracket.

Shane Sparks

What do you remember from that match with Askren? What did you learn in that bout. It was the biggest

Jake Herbert

lesson ever. I learned that one. I went all out and I lost, which I was all right with, right? It's don't get Roy hated losing. That sucked. And I was like, I'm bigger than him. I'm stronger than him. But what it really made me recognize, if you go back and watch the match, he did such a good job of getting my feet, or a foot isolated, or out of the mat, and then getting his feet in the mat. And that's just where it was loud, because I was stronger than him. I was faster, but, but was really cool is, like, his scrambling IQ, like, he could go, you know, I could go a, he does B, I just see I could go all the way to, like, H, I, J, K, he could go all the way to z and I just have never gone that far. I never had anybody in the practice room push me that. I grab your leg, you grab this, you dive here. I go, here. I never had those repetitions until I started working with Ben of somebody that went that much further, that much deeper, and knew it. So it waSATough lesson to learn. I hated it, right? I hated losing I thought that whole year was a waste of time, and Drew Pariano, you know, rest, rest in peace. My last conversation I had with him before he passed, he was telling me about, you know, my match with Askren. Because it was, it was a butt kicking, right? It was 14 to three, and it didn't look like that. It's like, Hey, you're both undefeated winners. Gonna walk away with a Hodge. I win that match. I'm a three time national champion. I'm a two time Hodge Trophy winner, maybe a three time Hodge Trophy winner, and losing that match, like I lost that match. And Drew's in the locker room, and he goes to me, and he's sitting there, and he sees him, I'll distraught, and I go, Well, I'm not gonna do that again. I don't remember this conversation. Drew was telling him. He goes, You're not gonna do that again. You're not gonna do what, stick to your game plan. Of like, hey, tire him out, hand fight him. Wait to take your taxes. I just shot off and went right away. I was like, I'm gonna go all out. It's who I am. It's how I fire. And he's like, what? Let's stick to the game plan. You're never gonna not stick to the game plan. I go, No, I'm never gonna lose again. That sucked. And stayed true to my word. And was like, done losing there in college after that match, which is what he's gonna do,

Shane Sparks

sticking on this mindset, Jake, you know what are a couple of like, core mindset, Jake Herbert, principles that you've come to understand and appreciate and developed between your ears.

Jake Herbert

Well, I'll give them to you. So I actually took, took this, and I have, like, a stupid little course. Can I give a shameless plug? Absolutely, you don't mind. So jherbert.com there is like, a wrestling, like mindset course, and I created a It's my very first course. But basically what I did was, like, I took the key principles. I have kids now, and I'm coaching a youth wrestling club, and I love it. My son's seven and a half, and he's gonna be gone. We're gonna go tomorrow night to the youth state championship, and he's mentally tough, and it's great, but he's not ready to win eight. I don't want to be an eight and under youth state championship. Do I want to win? Yes. Am I training him to? No, I'm training him to for the long run of things to want to run. So some of the things that I really do is, and this is one of the lines that I love, is you got to talk to yourself more than you listen to yourself, right? You have to take intentional program of your mind, because everybody's always trying to program you, right? There's TV programs or television programs, there's ads that are going across. Everyone's trying to program your mind, but and not everybody wants for you what you want for you. So that was the first thing that I do is, is the affirmation. I do this with my kids every day before they leave the house. I'm brave, I'm strong, I'm smart. I'm a champion. You ask him. Hey guys, affirmation for you, leaving my little three year old. I'm brave, I'm strong, I'm smarter champion. I have poses, Power Poses. About it. They're brave, they're strong, they're smart, they're champions. And they put this up there, and it's affirming. But now what matters is they have to know what those words mean. So you got to continue the conversation of what's being strong to you, Shane, what's being brave to you? What's being brave mean to our family might be a little different than what it means to, you know, the Askren family or the Burroughs family, that thing. I'm sure they're similar, but that's a really big thing. Is the self talk, the programming, the affirmation, and then a lot of it is just this. My favorite is the champions creed, and I programmed this in their mind, right? Like, you know, you're not judging the number of times you fail, you're judged on the number of times you succeed, and the number of times you succeed is directly related to the number of times you fail and keep on going. And I have to say it twice, because you're not judged on the number of times you fail, you're judged on the number of times you succeed, and the number of times you succeed is directly related to the number of times you fail and keep on going. So don't quit. Can't fail. Don't quit, can't fail. So it's just that programming of getting them in the process of doing the work and getting them to enjoy that the whole time. That's just a little tidbit. I think of that mindset thing, because this is so important at that top

Shane Sparks

level, who's had the biggest impact on your mind?

Jake Herbert

That's a great question. Man myself is number one, and then it's just a collection of coaches, right? Like, I've really blessed working backwards Andy Hrovat and Sean Bormet took me and my last few phase of having Tim Zacky and, you know, Drew Pariano there all my training partners that I've had. I mean, everybody, right? I think I would, I would take my I'd answer that question like Gable answers, like the quote of his gold medal, right? If I broke my gold medal down into pieces and gave it out to everybody, that is, it'd be dust. So I think it's that whole impact of just from my youth coaching all the way back to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and growing up there, my father all the way through. There's not one person. It's just been this melting pot of a bunch of people. And I have some sort of, like, weird, like, bias, see, like a goldfish, right? Like, Ted lasso says it'd be like a goldfish. I remember the positive things. I look backwards through rose colored glasses, and I'm focusing on, I don't lose, right? And my kids get crazy at me with this, but I'm like, I never lose. I win, or I learn. Like, yeah, you might be beating me right now in this Foosball game, but if we keep going, I'm learning enough I'm gonna beat you. And I have that mentality that if I just keep going long enough, you're gonna quit because I'm relentless, or I'm gonna learn enough to figure out that to get better than you beat you. And this is Shane that I love about this, this thing, this resilience, right? I just heard this, this, this talk, and how, like, we look at being resilient is a super positive thing, right? Like, you need to be resilient in life to be successful. But the truth is, learning to be resilient sucks, right? Like, you meet somebody that's really, really resilient, and you're like, Man, you had a really to get that resilient. Get that tough. You've had a really hard time, you've eaten some crap, to get that resilient. And it's weird, because it's like this spot of where we are versus like unknown, and this little like resilience training in between. It sucks being on that wagon, but the longer you're on it, the better you're going to be. And it's something that we got to get to our kids earlier. And that's what I love about the sport of wrestling. Like, it teaches you to be resilient. Because no practice is easy. It doesn't matter. Even if you're in the easy trip, it's still hard. It'SATough sport, man. And the world needs sport. If you want to get tough, you do tough things like, yeah, so I don't even preach

Shane Sparks

that to you. It's the best. I mean, this sport is hard. I was talking to somebody at the tournament this sport, we love it. It's humbling. No matter how good you are, you will have moments where this sport is going to rip your heart out of your chest, shove it down your throat, knock you on the floor and kick you as it walks away from you. And guess what? We want more. I mean, I've always said this, Jake, I love this sports. You got to be a little bit off. I mean, I don't believe that people in this sport have all the screws tightly connected, and that's what I love about it. And this is our sport. This is why we love it.

Jake Herbert

Yeah, I 100% agree with that. That's I've always joked about that, like, if I really opened up to, like, a clinical psychologist, they're going to commit me, right? Like all of us, like, they're going to commit any wrestler on there, because, like, that's not normal. But Doug Schwab said it, right? Like, Doug Schwab's biggest fear was being average. Like, I don't want to be normal, right? To be elite, to be there, you can't be normal. Like that. Greatness operates on the fringe. You got to be intense. You got to be willing to go to those dark places, and you got to have it, but you also got to be able to come back and put it in perspective too. So I think that's what, I think that's what Penn State is doing such a great job of that I keep noticing from those guys, is this is huge. Like, you only have four shots to win a national title. You might, you might only have that. But like. They keep putting it back in perspective, of, well, there's more to it. And Kyle Dake, I remember talking to him, like, nine months after he went to Penn State, because I wanted to give him that time on to be like, All right, what's the secret? What's the difference? What do you notice? What is there? And he was telling me, you know, it was like, he's like, that's not really, it's like, it's just gratitude. He's like, we want to win, right? Like, I want to win really badly. Everybody here wants to win, but I'm not going to kill my mom to win, right? I'm not going to trade, you know, my kid's life to win. I don't want to win that bad, more than anything. So you put it back into perspective that, like, hey, it is just a sport. And this is what sucks about this sport. Is the hardest thing, Shane, is at some point it ends like you're going to be done competing. Like, here I am, 40 years old and RAF would I love a raw match? Absolutely, I told Askren. I was like, Hey, if you want to get to the gather, let's go. Because I feel like now is my best chance I can have against not that I didn't have a chance before, but man, like, he's just been through a lot, but, dude, to make it through, like, can I go out there and do one match, sure, right? But to make it through multiple matches at this point, absolutely not. I can't run a tournament gauntlet like Jordan Burroughs. He's one match, and you put him in the world finals, he's, he could probably take out car, but for him to have that age of running that gauntlet. And I hope, hope he's he feels different about it. He should. It gets harder as you get older man, to put four or five of those matches together when you've had that, when you've gone through hell. I'll never forget my last Olympic cycle, my last training from 2012 to 2016 you know, I was 28 to 31 on that one, my rest and recovery was just as if not more important than my actual training. And it was so hard of a mindset, because what got me there can't get me to that next level, like I didn't need to do the hour grind, the matches, I didn't have to put in all that stuff. I had to train smarter and differently as I got older, which is completely inverse to being, you know, in my 20s, just being able to really push and really get up to that level. And I think we're seeing a lot of that to prolong these guys longevity and activity in the sport.

Shane Sparks

Is your dad still alive?

Jake Herbert

God bless him. He is. Yes. He

Shane Sparks

is, what seven? What kind of guy is your dad? Like? Tell me about your dad.

Jake Herbert

Well, my dad will not. It's so funny. It's it's a great so he coached me. My dad was a high school state champion from from my high school, North Allegheny High School, went and wrestled division one at Clarion University. So he was on the team with Wade Chalice, with Don Roy when they had national champions. He quit his senior year. Little too font was having too much fun, cut too much weight. But my dad was a good wrestler, you know, and he's quiet, but it was, it's just really interesting to see the transformation. Because those of you that know him, he went from dad to literally in high school. We his nickname was Lucifer, right? We called him like Lucifer. He drove around this big red truck. He would always have like, these stop watches on him, like making us get up on Sunday and run the lake. He would have these practices where he tried to, like, break people, like he was tough and he grew up as custom home builder. You know, they didn't have power saws. They cut everything by hand. They didn't have the things. They set the beams in the house themselves walking up. So he's just a tough dude. The dude last year still put on a 45 pound plate. Did 100 reps. I got the 89 and I went out. Now he's, he's like a Tyrannosaurus, where he's moving his arm. He's got big old chests and short arms. He's moving like this. And I got my and I got my mom's long arms, but my dad is just just quiet and stoic. And then you meet like two Martini Jim Herbert, and he won't shut up. But it's been, believe it, like watch him go in college, from Lucifer to being hard to pushing me, and the things he's doing is trying to keep me in line, right? I wanted to go to concerts and party and do all this stuff. And he's, like, what, you know, you're committed to this wrestling thing. Which? Which one do you want? Do you want to go tour with fish and be a loser there? And not a loser, but like, do you want to go, like, run this route, or do you want to be a state champion? And I kept getting pulled back into the wrestling world, into the wrestling world. And then in college, it was awesome, because in college, he went to big gym, right? So he went from dad to Lucifer for this time period to Big Jim, who's how most of the people this college one that lists this know this. Of like, he knows I want it. He knows I'm doing the right thing. He's there to help and support. Has always helped and support, rather that be getting fundraising so I can just focus on training for the Olympics, on supporting me about bringing in coaches and people and things that I need into my world. He's always been a big advocate for that, and now he's Gramps, and he is, like I said, I think this is what's great about most of the parents that were great parents, and I had a great dad, and my mom, actually, I get a lot of my mental toughness from her too. Everyone that meets my mom and dad like they love my mom too. They're better grandparents. They were parents, and they were great parents, right? Were they perfect? No, and not at all. Nobody is they're trying to figure it out, because I'm their age now with kids, but they're such great grandparents, too, and I'm just so blessed to have that family of just love and support in what I did, and that ability to focus and. Be almost a little bit selfish at times of training and what it takes. So that was, that was the environment. And they were, they were competitive. My mom was a big track star. Ran a lot, was really athletic, but didn't they? Women didn't have as many opportunities back in the 70s, and she still does, you know, about 100 burpees every day she works out for her living. My dad still didn't. They're living their dream right now. I feel like they're, you know, they're having a great time being me, me and Gramps, and I'm gonna see them Monday for a whole week down in Florida, you know, whenever this comes out. So, yeah, fantastic.

Shane Sparks

That is great stuff. How did you Jake end up at Northwestern why was that the right fit?

Jake Herbert

Oh, Tim Cysewski was a big part of it, really, it came down to when I looked at my schools, it was Virginia Tech, University of Virginia, University of Michigan and Northwestern and it came down to Big Ten wrestling. Was it? I was like, I want the best wrestling. So I want Big Ten. And honestly, I wanted to go to Michigan, but they signed the guy that I beat the state finals, Josh Weitzel. I was number one in the country. He was number two. I beat him in a one takedown match. They recruited him. So they basically came at me for the half offer. Northwestern had a full ride. And I was like, Hey, Big Ten wrestling, I didn't think you could do anything post wrestling back then. Like, you know, you know, you needed to have a good degree. She'd get a good job. And it's like, Northwestern is just such a great academic school. It was the perfect fit for me. It was small. Everybody there was smart. I surrounded myself with geniuses, with super successful business people, and it was the environment set up for me to thrive in. And I don't know if I went to a different school that maybe had a little bit more distractions or bigger opportunities, I might have fallen off the wagon, who knows, but Northwestern had everything it had to have me, had the success that I had there, and I was just really blessed to be part of that team and part of that opportunity.

Shane Sparks

How was your high school career? High school career was

Jake Herbert

pretty good, you know, I wasn't I was good. Wasn't great. You know, I was a one time Pennsylvania state champion. And a joke, it's easier to win an NCAA title than a high school state championship in PA that's how tough we are. Keith Gavin will agree with that. You know, he's a one time. I know I only think he won, maybe won one state title, but no, I don't think he won one. He didn't want a state title. Took third, and then he's a national champ, right? So high school was good. I want took six, my freshman year, third, my sophomore year, second, my junior year, finally won it my senior year, but trajectory coming up, Zach fryling Beat me in the state finals. Nathan Galloway beat me in the semis one of the year I took third, and then I lost in overtime to Troy Millhouse, going when I was a freshman, and thank God I did, because he got TechEd by like Jay giomani. He was like, the number one senior in the nation that next match. But I remember that match going for Merkel instead of just securing the point in overtime. It's good lesson to learn. And unfortunately, like nobody likes learning, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta eat some crud sometimes, to learn.

Shane Sparks

What was it like winning that first Pennsylvania state title? What do you remember from that day?

Jake Herbert

I remember that was, well, just everything, right, that solidified me as number one ranked in the nation, beating Josh schweitzel. It was a lifelong goal, right, that I've been working for for 18 years. It seemed like my whole life working for that. I got to do it alongside, I think we had five guys from our whipios all win that, including Mark McKnight, including Jared King that year, Bill Spencer. I think there was another, another one in there. I can't remember who, who they're only doing it, but it, it was, I just remember thinking, wow, this is amazing. And then I couldn't wait to come back to Hershey to see it. And here's my qualm with Pennsylvania state championships. Every year they're during the Big Ten championships. So it's like, I've never been back to the Hershey state championships since I won it in 2003 and I'd love to get back, but I'm always in the choice of, like, which one you go to. So I'm always going to Big Ten because I was pulled in there after college. And it's, it's one thing that I wish we could get right as wrestling. How do we have it set up like football, right? You don't have like, you have high school football on Friday, you have college football on Saturday, and then you have the pros on Sunday, like, they do a great job of getting out of each other's way. And I hope that's something that more of these organizations can continue to do as we as we get forward to this piggy

Shane Sparks

backing off of that, Jake, if I were to give you the magic wand, and maybe what you just said is what you would use it for. But is there anything if I gave you the magic wand, when you look at wrestling, that you would change? If you could,

Jake Herbert

General, prepared, ready, I would change everything at the youth level, not everything. There's so many people doing it right, and there's so many good opportunities like, I think ben askren said this on a podcast once that like, he doesn't train his kids to win Tulsa national at like, 10 and under, like, and he's got, I mean, his program now you look at the success. I mean, what they scored last year. They scored more points than Iowa team. He's got, they probably did pretty well this year. They're probably in top 10 Askren Academy aSATeam. Because of the long term fundamentals that he's putting into these kids. So that would be the big thing is, and it would be general prepared, readiness. This is what Russia does. This is what this is the training system that base wrestling, that Andy and I put together for a while, that I'm implementing here, that it's still out there and doing. But for these youth levels, I think the most important thing I would do is make sure that all their goals align for these four things, that the number one goal at the youth level is retention. How do we have more kids practice to practice in year to year? Because if you have more kids that are staying, you know, from practice to practice that are staying year to year, how you structure your practices so it's focused on retention, and it's not going to be for everyone, right? Like, we had 75 kids sign up in our youth class. We had about 45 to 50 regularly showing up. We only had 10 of them go, like, go to the regionals, because the other ones weren't ready. And I was like, hey, it's cool. If you're not ready, you don't got to jump in there and do it. Come back to the rest of season, next year, next year, you'll be ready. So I think the big thing would be that retention. Then the next thing I would do is the general prepared readiness. There's nothing worse than when I'm at a practice and a coach is going, none of my kids can do stand up so nobody can get off bottom. And I line up 30 kids, and I go, Hey, guys, do a backwards roll to your feet, and two kids can do a backwards roll to their feet. And I'm like, Dude, if you can't do a backwards roll to your feet as an eight year old, what are your chances of standing up when you have another human being on top of you? So it's like it. So it's that general prepared readiness. Do they have a system, a physical training system, where these kids are rolling, handstands, tumbling, strength building. So the first 30 minutes to 45 minutes of all of our youth practices are just these fun little games, drills, warm ups to get them used to going upside down, to walking on their hands, to holding a handstand, depending where they're at, and moving through it with them. That would be the biggest things I would really focus on. Because if you have more kids on the program that are around the program more that are better athletes. You haven't even taught them a single wrestling move yet, and you're gonna win so many more matches just because it's just wrestling, right? Like my my son still, I'm so he we do this, the go behind drill. We're like, hey, they spin around a circle. They spin around a circle in the regional match, and he's wrestling. He's in front of the kid. I'm like, Hey, go behind. Go behind. He spins not just around behind him, but then all the way back in front of him again. And I'm like, around. And I was like, All right, this is good. I gotta, like, explain this some. Hey, buddy, you didn't get points here because you didn't stop underneath and secure your take.

Shane Sparks

What do you love about coaching Jake? You clearly love it.

Jake Herbert

Ah, I love the impact that you have on kids, right? Just, you just don't know the impact, the messages that I get from the parents when they come up and they just go, Hey, my son didn't like wrestling that much last year, and this year, since his practice is his favorite thing. And he's, he's he's doing headstands at home. He's doing handstands at home. He's doing push ups before he goes to bed. He's doing pull ups. When you just see these kids start to become self motivated and driven, it's just like, you know all this. I think every strength and conditioning coach in the world can attest this. But when they get a wrestler, it's like dangling a big T bone steak in front of them, like our wrestling workouts in college. When we were going through one, one of the football players were coming at the end, and he went up to a strength ignition coach and goes, Hey, what'd they do wrong? And he was like, what? He goes, Why are you punishing them? And he just started laughing, because I'm not punishing them. That's just their workouts. You know, like, that's we're just ghosts. We need to start to unlock that in a kid. I love that, and honestly, I love being able to coach the other kids so much more. Because the hardest thing to do is sit in my son's corner and like to battle in here, versus what do I express out there? Because I care so much and I want him to win and succeed. And I'm like, oh, but I'm also like, dude, like, you know, for his true second match at regionals, he already qualified for the states. He takes the kid down, he's turning him to and he gets the points, he's going to win the match. And the kid screams out and cries with 15 seconds left, so, you know, and it's like, what do I do when I'm going to run on the mat? Like, dude, it's an eight year old kid. The kid laid down was emotionally broke, because guess what? The first round of that tournament, my son was getting his butt kicked, and he was the one like 14 Points. So it's like, is it's really good for them to learn these lessons and losses. So, like, I was really proud of my son at regionals, because he got thumped by a kid that was way better than him, and then he wrestled all the way back for took third, and then wrestling for true seconds was a match that he should have won. So it was great to experience both those losses and one days and have them still want to come back and go. So now he's like, pumped about this weekend. He's pumped about competing, and that's, that's what I want. I just want them to sit there, to want to compete, to want to put it out there, and hey, the results are the results, right? If you just keep going, you're gonna get better and better. I love, I love that impact. So I think it goes down to impact. And.

Shane Sparks

Kids, third place. Jake, I love third place. I mean, that's when you find out what you're made of. It's not easy. Don't feel like doing it. Maybe I had to cut weight the night before. I mean, you look at college and number one seed gets beat in the semis. Like, how does he come back? What is your philosophy on third place and getting the next best thing when, quite frankly, you might not feel like it, yeah, it's

Jake Herbert

hard man, but it just, it just says something. That's what I and it makes it even harder on the international because it's metal or no metal. It's not third or fourth, it's third or fifth, it's bronze medalist or not. And that's a huge difference in it too, and is, I just love that lessons that it teaches, right? Like when you get there, and you can tell that difference, right, of that person who still wants to let it all out and go. And then my son, it was really fun. He asked me questions. I talked to him a lot, and I want him like I asked him questions. I want him ask me questions, but he actually asked me this one. Shane, I'd love to get your take on it. Would you rather take fourth or fifth?

Shane Sparks

That's a really good question, because it's always finished with that odd number, right? Finish with that odd number. I would tell you this Jake and I, obviously, I just wrestled in high school, so it's really hard to make the comparison, but I remember my senior year taking second. And that one really hurt Junior. I took third. Felt really, really good about it. Two different scenarios, actually, you know? I mean, those are different, you know, not necessarily apples to apples, oranges to oranges, but I would say, I'd probably say I'd feel better taking fifth. I probably feel right, yeah, even though, if you were asked me going into the tournament, would you take fourth or fifth? Well, then you take fourth, yeah, you might not feel as good. I know I

Jake Herbert

had, that was the same thing. I couldn't answer when my son asked that. I was like, that's a really good question, buddy. It is a great question, yeah, because you lose two matches regardless. But it also, like, depends on who you lose to, sure, right? That's, that's the other thing too. Like, I look at, I was skiing with, with Matt Gentry. He was Stanford national champion. And Matt told me his then civil a was did not place, did not place national champion, where he had four undefeated after he beat Ryan Bertin in the in the semifinals, and then beat, I think, Jake Percival to win it in such a stacked bracket. And then at senior year, he did not place. And my wife, we were driving up there to Calgary. She's like, hey, how good was Matt at wrestling? I was like, Well, let me tell you about his London 2012 Matt Gentry lost to Jordan Burroughs in three periods, right? So Jordan beats him. First period, he beats Matt, beats him. Second period, Jordan comes back and beats him by like a point in the third period, as close as you can. So he loses to the Olympic champion. And then for bronze, who does he lose? To Tsargush? Tsargush? Right? The only other sounds like he only lost to the world champions through that quad, and he lost in the same thing to Tsargush three period match. And then two years later, the guy on the other side that took bronze failed the drug test, so the other guy for fifth moves on up. And I'm like, so Matt Gentry could not have come closer to being an Olympic medalist than that. Like, you're one drug test away and you lose to the only guys, the only two world champions, right? The Burroughs won the second two and Tsargushche won the first two. Like, I'm just like, Dude, that's, that's, that's a fourth place finish that like, that's, that's tough to do, right? That's where you're talking about, wrestling, ripping your heart out, kicking you down. You kicking you down, even when you're already great. You achieve these amazing things. You bring up a really

Shane Sparks

good point, because it's different, right? I mean, you might take third place and feel really, really good about it. In some scenarios, you may take third place. In other scenarios, doesn't feel as good. You're right. Taking fourth place with those circumstances, can keep your head high for sure. He was a stud. He was a stud. You should see

Jake Herbert

how cut up he is still and he's got, he's coaching at University of Chicago. They had two All-Americans this year, d3 so I'm glad he's he found his way back into the sport, man. And he's just talking coaching philosophies, being able to call him up and just, not just coaching philosophies. This is what's great about this. What's great about the sport. It's now, like transcending, right? Like, Jordan. Jordan's son just won the state championship at 60 pounds. I'm like, Oh, great. My son's wrestling at 55 pounds. And I saw he had, like, a camp, a father and son camp, and I sent him, like, did it right away? He's like, dude, next year father and son camp. JB, let's go. I'll show up to that stuff, man. And that's what's going to be so fun about seeing, like, the next generation and being around guys that can understand that, right? Because, from what I know about beacon and Jordan, like, first of all, Jordan's wife is awesome too, right? He picked just such another great person. Same with, like, a lot of these high level guys, they're wives, like, we out kick our coverage. Like, everybody that knows me, that you know they're like, Dude, you my wife is like, two times better than I am, which keeps me leveling up for where I'm at. So it's just so good to get these families together and be able to know that like, hey, these kids are going to continue to help iron, sharpen iron, and just raise that next level, that next generation, that you can get around. And it's. Good, because I know sometimes I'll say this, Jordan's gonna say the same thing to my son, but it might hit him different, right? And that was the big thing that I noticed my dad did really, really well in the wrestling room, because he was my dad and I'm in high school. Yeah, Dad, whatever you don't know. Yeah, you're a state champ, but whatever. So he'd be like, Look at me in a single leg. Like, hey, you need to put your head here. Yeah, what do you know your dad? And he would go to my coach and be like, hey, check out where Jake's head is in single leg. My coach would see this and be like, Hey, Jake, try putting your head here in a single leg. And then I would do that, like, Hey, Dad, check this out. I put my head in a single leg. I watch him like, at least he got it, at least he got the message. And you want that? You want your kids in this sport, because they're going to be surrounded by just such great people. And that was one of the hardest things. Shane from leaving the sport of wrestling after 26 I don't think people talk about enough, is the transition out of the sport when it ends. And that was hard, hard for me, and it's gonna be hard for a lot of these other people. Who was it the all, les from, from Nebraska, that broke his ankle. Wrestling wall, dude, you couldn't talk about, my heart goes out to him, man, like just such a worse way to end your season on an injury like that. And rather, he's done or not, he's gonna do great things. But it's, it's weird, you know, I don't think it's talked about enough with these athletes. Of one wrestling is over, and some of them put it all really together really well, and go and do amazing things. And some of us just get tortured by those demons and and don't make it, man,

Shane Sparks

you recall any of those darker days for you absolutely.

Jake Herbert

I mean, it's I was really blessed that I had a good relationship. I literally was like, my wife's like, my wife's like, what do you want to do afterwards? Like, I think I'm gonna, I want to build a garden. So she literally gave me a week built like, a garden my backyard, like, planted a bunch of stuff. I was like, All right, now, what gardens? Gardens built like, what do I do now? And just, just, like any journey you just, you just started off, right? I found my way into a jiu-jitsu room to find other like minded people. Because if I think that's a huge thing for wrestlers, when you're done, is we still have to, you still want to get this out, Shane like, I still have to get beat or beat somebody. And jiu jitsu gives you an opportunity to take our skills that transitions really well. Adults are in there. It's just so much easy wrestling. It's easier wrestling, and you can find really good people on really bad people on it. And it's, it's just like another sport, I think, where a lot of us tend to hang out and go. So it's really, really blessed to find some great jiu jitsu people in and around here and that, to compete in that, and to continue to learn and to find that be like my new outlets is really big, and then surrounding myself. I mean, I'm a big fan of of masterminds, right? I've joined a bunch of them of just getting around these other high level people for the purpose of bettering yourself as a father, as a husband, as a Christian and all these things. But those, those darker days, I don't think we talk about enough, because it's really easy to then be like, well, you know? And here's one, like, got a nice wine collection there, right? It's, it gets really easy on, like, oh, I don't have a now, you know, can have a bottle of wine on a Tuesday night and still get up and get my workout in, and I don't have to make weight. And it's just like, I have my son on the other side. So it's like, every day I have a choice, like, which 1am I gonna hit? Right? Like, and I have these things in between here to remind me, you know, like, which one do I need to be going to more often? And that stuff. And I just think the big thing I would encourage these wrestlers that, if you are at that place, is don't isolate. That was one thing. I am super extroverted. You don't isolate. Because when you start to isolate and you get a loan, you it gets harder. Whereas if you have a team, you come in, you can have your teammates, your people, pulling you back up. So reach out, find ex teammates, connect with somebody. There's millions of people out there that you can do this, but find that community that will bring it up during those hard times. If you're you know, if you're suffering like that, because you're not

Shane Sparks

alone, what do you miss most?

Jake Herbert

You most, the people, right? The people in the relationships. That's what I miss most. I love it, man. I love the sport. I love who they are. I love the relationships. I love how everybody's just another dude, right? And rather, you're a five time Olympic gold medalist, or you're just somebody that you know. You know you wrestled in high school and you went 500 we can all relate to each other too. We all know. We all have that, that shared bond of we've suffered, we've done hard things, we can still do hard things, and we're in this together. So I miss that relationship and that connectivity, that is the biggest thing that I miss, and I'm now being pulled back into it too, because I got the kids I got the kids club that's going on. And, you know, I'm just, I'm just getting back into it, which I'm really pumped about.

Shane Sparks

If somebody would have told you, Jake, after that match with Askren that decades down the road, you and Askren would have a. Relationship, and you had admire him and learn from him. What would you have said?

Jake Herbert

Oh, I'd say absolutely, because literally, the way that I'm wired when he beat me in oh six, I want an oh seven and then an oh eight. I went down and trained with him in Missouri. I went I went down to Missouri. I trained with him. He showed me his secret to his spaghetti sauce. Ben astrom can cook some mean spaghetti. He's got a big secret to the sauce, that he soaks the meat in the sauce for, like a day before and everything. But I went down and trained with him then, because he was keeping the Olympics at 74 kilos, and I'm keeping there at 84 kilos. And it's one of the best things, because he you just feel like there's this again. We go through wrestling in a two hour session, right? Like it's two hours of practice and it's really hard. So you think, like, why would I ever gas out during a seven minute match when I can go an hour and a half, a full hour of wrestling, hard, of drilling, of doing this, you should never be tired, because it's not the physical exhaustion, it is the mental and emotional exhaustion. And we talked about this in jiu-jitsu, and Ben was really good at this of like, like, threatening you, where you're, like, your nervous systems, like, Oh, he's got my leg here. I don't know what's going on. I don't like this, and that drains your energy so much faster. So when I was there training with him, that was the best thing that I really picked up was, how do I just emotionally threaten these guys, how do I make them feel uncomfortable to watch your level go down? And that's how you take somebody and you break them with that emotional, you know, resiliency, it's got to be really built up, and it's intention to see so like, I have no doubt in my mind now reading his book, I like what Ben's doing. I like where he's at. I never have a problem with anybody that that that has beaten me, you know, fair and square, even, even at my Olympics, right? Like, I don't have a problem with the guys that beat me. I have a problem with how they won. Because the, you know, the president of the wrestling during that time is now under indictment for like 20 million in like, bribes, and then I had like, the seven rest who got, like, suspended afterwards. So, you know, my Olympic run sucked, you know, taking seventh at the Olympics, where I, you know, going into that tournament, I was four and all against the guys that won gold, silver and bronze. So that was a really hard one to swallow. And I just had to get to this point of acceptance that, like, if I get my gold medal, if I have my gold medal, do I still meet my wife and find her? Do I just, like, run past her and be like, Oh, you're just another girl, and I can get any girl I want, because I'm Jake Herbert. Like, maybe I wasn't ready for it. I don't know what it is, but I tell her all the time, like she is my Olympic gold medal, like my family is my new like, training partner, and that that's hard to that's that's hard to accept, but I did everything in my power. So I look at it as like, Oh, it's $20 million short away from buying an Olympic gold medal. And if the worst thing that ever happens to me in my life, if I can honestly say the worst thing that ever happened to me is getting screwed out of Olympic gold medal, how blessed am I? Right? Like, how I still have both my parents around. I still have a great wife, great kids, everything else. If that's the thing that I take to my grave, is the worst thing that ever happened to me, dude, there are so many worst things out there, like I and it took me a long time to accept that, and a lot of gratitude, and a lot of programming, because you can never go back right. Like I tried it. One more cycle. Went through 15, made the world team. Was coming back. I'm going to do this, get to the World Championships again. And like you look at my career, Shane, 2009 World silver medalist, losing on a coin flip in overtime. 2010 first round, I draw the Cuban. I lose first match. And then Cuban Russell is the guy that I wrestled in the world finals. Next round, Cuban loses, I'm eliminated. And then 2011 this guy, guys might have heard of him. Cael Sanderson comes out of retirement, stops me from making the world team. And you look at like, all right, 2009 Herbert goes from coin flip, from World silver medalist, to Owen one to not making the team. And I'm like, I dedicated myself full time. I was such a better wrestler in 2011 and 12 than I ever was back then. I was stronger, I was faster, I was freestyle. I knew more. But that's just the crazy thing about this sport, which is makes it so much rare when you have guys like Burroughs win, you know, seven or eight medals for Kyle Snyder, right, who has 10 medals at this point and just won another World Championship, like, this much later. Like, it is, it is just unbelievable. And there's just levels this. You're talking to this and telling me, I'm probably one of the most underrated wrestlers out there, but it's just because, look at this dynasty that we've built since I've kind of come along. Like, I was in that Burroughs Getting Started age, right where? Like, I was the Hodge Trophy winner. Like, you know, that's, that's where it was. I was the World silver medalist. And then JB comes on the scene, and I got to be a part of all that on, like, the creation of Kyle Dake and David Taylor were, like, out there in 2012 at the Olympics as, like, my easy training days, I'm like, hey, they're just young college kids. Come here. Let me beat you up and move you around, you know? And that's, that's what's amazing about. That sport is that little bit that just goes in them. And now what David Taylor's doing at at Oklahoma State is unbelievable. Him and Jimmy Kennedy out there, who Jimmy was. I live with him. I trained with Jimmy, like, for so long. Like, it's just so great to see these guys go on and continue to have success and continue to move that sport and lift it up.

Shane Sparks

What were you thinking, Jake, when you knew Cael was coming back.

Jake Herbert

Well, I was excited. I got to wrestle him. I got a good takedown on him. And I would say like so I don't have too many regrets, but if I do look back at my career, one thing that I did not do enough of, if with Cael Sanderson being the best that he is, the best that he was in that I probably only had maybe less than an hour, maybe two hours, of training with him on the Mac total in my career. So there's something to that, right? Like he's one of the best in the world, right? Would that have made a big difference? I don't know. I got to where I was. I'm very happy with my career and how it finished off, but if I had to go back, I definitely would want to increase that time. I mean, it worked well with Varner. Varner was there with Cael and got his Olympic gold on our team. You know, it worked well. The Olympic silver medalist was training down there with Cael, who had beat every single time. And that would be like the one thing that I'd do, but it was great. I remember wrestling him in the match and taking him down, going for a turn, him grab my leg and picking me, and then just after the match, like, I'm wearing Cael Sanderson shoes, like, because they're my shoes that I was wearing, like, as I'm wrestling and Cael Sanderson, so I just said about the match. I was like, here these, these don't work. And he just was like, Oh, they do for me, right? But, like, it was great. It's great to be able to get those experience, to wrestle that guy that I was at a match with, you know, with at State College of the wrestle Northwestern, like, two years ago. And, you know, he comes up, hey, Herbert, how you doing? Man? What's what's up? And it was so funny, because I was with Stephen Fisher from, from state and liberty,

Shane Sparks

the best suits ever, by the way, we both know that got my stale liber Yeah, the night,

Jake Herbert

Cael is wearing mizzen and main, and Steven's like, it just kills me. What do I got to do, Cael to get you in the state liberty, you know? And it's just, he's just great. He talks to you. I could just tell Hey. He stopped. He like, Oh, hey, Jake, how are you? What's going on? What are you doing here? And it's kind of cool to see those different sides. I think that was something that I had this like ability that I would be sitting there with, like, Metcalf with Brands, and they're intense, right? Like, they're the intense people they'd see me, and they just put the smile on their face, like Herbert. They're like, either, like, get away from me. I gotta do my intense because I can just crack through them. Like, hey guys, come on. This is fun. Let's see that good time. Let's see that human part of us that's out there. And that was one of that's another thing that I miss, is just seeing these guys on like that level and just knowing the love, because, I mean, brand world, Team USA, that's the thing, like, when you're out there overseas, yeah, I beat, you know, Brands this guy to make the team out there. But then when I'm out there getting ready, horse, do you need water? You got this? Herbert, come on. I'll never forget, man, my match against Keith Gavin. He beats me in the first period. He's winning the second period. I take him down with like 10 seconds left to force a third period, and then come back. Same thing, the third period, and making them coming off the mat, and Brands comes up to me, and this is going on my gravestone. He goes, Herbert, you need a wheelbarrow when you go on that mat, because your balls are this big. This is like on my tombstone. You know,

Shane Sparks

is that Tom or Terry? No idea,

Jake Herbert

no idea, no idea which one, but it just is, like, that's going on my gravestone. Herbert, you need a wheelbarrow. I want to go on the mat. T. Brands, right?

Shane Sparks

Like I've always said about those guys, Jake, I like them both. They've always been fair to me. They've always been nice. Like, I really like them. I admire them in so many ways. And I've told them this, and they've chuckled about it, people will ask me, What's it like deal with Tom and Terry? I'm like, they're great people. Their moral compass is due north. Yes, they love their guys. Yes, you put the scoreboard around them, and they're, you know, go to crazy town from time to time, but that's their job. Like, I would never, I would never judge anybody involved in wrestling or on the scoreboard, like, it's just, like, it's just, it's just not always indicative of who they are. It's just that's the way it is. They're intense. They want to win,

Jake Herbert

they want to win, and they're and you're talking when you know you have them your side, that belief, that's what Gable did, like, that's what Gable did with those guys, is you just knew you had Dan Gable believing in you and that thing, and Tom and Terry are the same way. Man, they believe with everything in their power, and they are all in that's what Drew Pariano, you know, did for me. That's what Tim Cysewski did for me. I knew they were all in, that they had that support. So makes you feel bigger and stronger, because you're not just wrestling me out there on the mat, you're wrestling everybody else behind me, man. And when you have that belief and that mentality and that there, that they have, that it's, it's great I have, yeah, I have great things to say about Tom and Terry Brands and who they are, and on, on the mat, off the mat, the intensity of it too. And they're, they're fantastic, man. And they're so good for the sport, too. You need to have those, those personalities, those different things, because, yeah, not everybody's gonna like them. But that's what's great about it, like you don't

Shane Sparks

need to be liked by everybody. Where in your career, did you make the biggest gains? And why?

Jake Herbert

It's a great question. I think the biggest gains were going into college. I've just seen that next level, like I was already ready, right? And in high school, I was wrestling with the top my dad had Vertis Jones, right? Was in our area, and I just remember practices with him were like, my goal is, can I just lock on his leg? That was it? Yeah, I'm a high school senior, and Vertis Jones is defending national champion, and I had Mark angle, who was ranked number one? You know, he'SATwo time. I think he placed two time All-American that was on there. I had all these guys that I was already going with that were like, at that next level to wrestle up. So I was on that path. But then when I got to college and I knew that I could actually do it is where it is, I just had to stay on the path. I already had the technique. It wasn't changing any little thing. It was just 1% compounding every day because my red shirt. Freshman year, I went undefeated. I didn't lose a match there. I won the three open tournaments. But it was so weird for me, because I couldn't beat I couldn't I don't think I ever took down on Northwestern starter, Andrew Curran at that time, and I couldn't take him down in the room. He'd beat me in the room. He was bigger, stronger. Senior would kind of sit back, I would attack, and he would just pick me apart as I would attack. And I was open and flowing in the room. And then we entered the Michigan State open, and he'd go, like, one and two, and I won the thing, and I came back. I was like, Oh, this can be different. And it wasn't any different, because I just always took this mentality of being able to operate like, it's show time and go time versus in the room, we can get to that level, but I'm in the room to learn, so I have to fail. I have to give up, take downs, I have to learn from positions, and I just kept failing. And you just talk to people over and over, like, yeah, Herbert in the practice room wasn't really good, right? And that was one thing. When you ask Kyle Dake why he went up in 2016 he was like, I have a better chance of beating you, Jake, because of how much I thump you in the practice room versus Burroughs, you know. And that's why he went up in 2016 like, he just was like, you know, I've tried to beat Jordan. I haven't figured it out. I want to concede I'm gonna go up to this weight class and go because when we were training as training partners, he got to the point where, like, he was always beating me in the wrestling room, and I'm but I'm just sitting there learning I'm, like, it's different. You ask Keith Gavin said that to Matt Gentry, told me this weekend, he's like, Keith said the same thing is, like, I kick Jake's butt sometimes in the practice room, but I go out in the Matt and wrestle him. It's a different person. Because that's just a different level intensity. And you put the lights the audience, everything else on there, I'm ready to go like, that's, that's where I perform and I peak. And I think that was just something in my training, of where it is, is that I was ready for these spots, that I knew it would go and I can go all out, because I failed already so many times in the room.

Shane Sparks

Good stuff, good stuff. Your Big Ten career, three time Big Ten champ, you and I were talking before we got rolling, your freshman year, red shirt freshman year, you that's You got beaten the Big Tens. Give us that story, yeah.

Jake Herbert

So that was I had a really good career, right? Undefeated, like I won my first 31 or whatever, 20 some straight matches. And then I get to a duel against Pete Friedl from Illinois. They changed. They do a random draw where first class, and he beats me as my first losses College. Okay, I look good. You shake that off. So then I get him in the Big Ten finals. I get my take down, just like I already beat him at Midlands that year. He beat me in the duel. We get to the Big Ten finals, beating him eight seconds left, you know, over or under, he inside trips, hit my butt, grabbed his leg, pull it through. They say no, once you hit your butt, that was it. And I lost that match, and that put me down as a fourth seed, and won my first match at NCAA. Lost then to last second round to Stanford. Guide wrestled all the way back, and now I'm in third and fourth. And who do I have? Pete Friedl. And I just remember being so exhausted. My body hurts so much being so tired, and ended up beating him that match to get that vengeance. So we split two and two, and that year and that career, and it was one of those times I came back at third. I beat a guy that already beat me. It was great, like I look at it now, and it's pretty cool, because I got these, you know, three, only three of these Big Ten championships the world, but this is the one that's the one that really or that's the silver, there's the gold, you know, there's the other two golds from it too. But it's just cool to have that stuff to and now, like, look back, like, I look at my wall, and I'm like, I'm missing two national championships that I can't find, and I'm missing one of these World Team ones that I can't find and, like, complete my collection. And then there's, like, a world bronze medal that I haven't located yet from university, so I don't have it all up there, but I'm working my way through it. But it just was losing there. Just it stunk, right? I just was like, I'm never doing that again. You know, I hate it. Do you have to taste it and be like, nah. That's not for me. I'm not going to do it again, meaning I'm going to do everything I can to make sure I'm prepared. And I was, you know, that that next year my my first Big Ten title mark, Perry against Iowa, my 21st birthday, pinning a Hawkeye, who, you know, was in the national finals the year before. That was a great, Big Ten Championship to have. And then, you know, winning the next two were just as great. It's just, it just, but then again, it just becomes a step along the way.

Shane Sparks

Who did you beat to win those other two? Phil Keddy,

Jake Herbert

my senior year. And I want to say Mike Pucillo. I actually don't know, my junior. I can't remember. Which is crazy?

Shane Sparks

Is crazy? That is crazy.

Jake Herbert

Yeah, who did I beat? I don't know. I want to say maybe caddy that year, maybe Pucillo, but I don't think it was Pucillo that year. I don't know where I beat I beat him. I'm sure they remember, because I remember my losses. It's harder to remember your wins like I remember all the losses.

Shane Sparks

What were you most proud of in the way you competed in winning your first national title? What was key?

Jake Herbert

I wasn't that proud of it. I mean, I beat Varner. I actually it was. It was a boring match. I held back. I just wrestled to win, and I didn't like that. I look at my two national championships, they weren't. They were just textbook win. Go out, get a tape down the first 10 seconds, ride them the rest of the time, looking for a turn. Never got a turn, but I got my riding time. Escape in the second period. Got another take down again, another point that was it just two takedowns, control and dominate. So it was more boring than I wanted to be. But I wasn't ever like stopping right? I was looking for it, for it too. But I know there's a part of me that was like, I want to win more than I want to go all out and you kind of like, sit back a little bit. So like those matches, they're both like, six to one or six to two victories, where it was like two takedowns, riding time and, you know, just domination throughout them. But it was, it wasn't as sexy as I'd like it to be, but I was just proud of how I put the whole tournament together, especially of finishing my career my senior year, because it's so hard. Because you watch that, you watch these guys, like, all these upsets are happening and these things that happen anytime, right? Like, I am, I'm very high on Jesse Mendez. Like, I think that guy is savage, going to be, possibly going to be our guy for 2028 and I can't wait to see what he does in the world stage, and super, super big on how he competes. And I thought this year, he just really stepped up and differentiated himself in the field. He really took it there and went levels up and just had that one match. You know, I know if he goes back and wrestles Vega nine more times, like, you know, it's gonna be one of those matches that when you see them wrestling freestyle, it's probably gonna be a little bit different, because Mendez is gonna be pissed. I are gonna be pissed, you know, but like, that's the thing that I love to see, is just like guys like, going all out and how hard of a sport it really is. Like, you have Mendez this year, you had what, Gabe Gable Steveson lose the year before, and then you have Spencer Lee the year before, and,

Shane Sparks

yeah, no one's safe.

Jake Herbert

Nobody be able just to finish it and be like, Oh, get my hand up and be like, All right. I did it. I stopped losing. I set out. I said, I'm not gonna lose anymore. I'm gonna finish this career off like this. I got my degree. I just start to figure out it's just like this. Oh, wow. That feels really, really good. But then something that bill's addict said, and it really, like, stuck with me. And I think this goes more to like those guys in that dark that dark feeling is Bill, Bill Zadick world champion, right? And he was talking to me one day in practice Olympic Training Center, and goes, Hey, Jake, do you know what the what the worst part about being a world champion is? And I'm like, what, Bill, like, you got to beat girls away at the stick all this endorsement? Like, what's the worst part about being a world champ? Bill, you know, in like, my stupid way, and he looks at me and he's dead serious. And this has really stuck me. And probably somebody said, Me. And probably somebody said the most is he goes not being a two time world champ, and it really get me of this, this situation of like, enough versus more. And there's a great book out there, the psychology of money chapter three, that talks about this thing of like, more than enough, more versus enough, because that is something that you really have. Because I think as wrestlers, we're driven to achieve more, to do more, to be better, to do better. You asked Miss and brink, you know, he's like, Oh, I made this mistake in this match, this mistake in this match. I could still do this better in this tournament. And the guy damn near perfect, right? 100% bonus point finishing in this but he still has that like, looking for that more. And we have this thing of, like, it's called, like, moving the goal posts once you hit a goal great. I won one national title. Now I need to. Now I need three, right? I ended up with nine national championships, you know, like, two in college, five, you know, two university and then three senior level world champion. So nine legit, real national titles in my career. But could have had 10, right? Or I could have been a 10 time world medalist, like like Snyder, right, or 10 teams like that. So there's always this next level of more versus enough, and it goes against all of our grain of wrestling, of how do we be content and satisfied with what we have? And you're essentially, you're grateful, but not satisfied, because you want to come from. A place of gratitude, and that's something that then transitions and can get us in trouble in other aspects of life. Because, yeah, it's one bottle of wine enough when I could do 234, like, you can go different things in that nature, right? And especially this age. Do I need to do five sets of, you know, 50 pull ups? No, probably not. Like, I don't need to blow my shoulder out or get hurt anymore. So it's, it's been really weird as like, this 40 year old operate where, like, my new 80% is my new 120% whereas before it's like, always give me more till I break, until I go. But again again, what got me here? Won't get me there. So it's just a it's a weird, different phase, as you start to age,

Shane Sparks

Jake, I'm disappointed myself, my my second grade teacher, my fifth grade teacher. Be disappointed. You mentioned something. I made a note like, Oh, I got a great follow up question. So I make a note and I go look at it, and I have no idea what it says. I have no idea, no idea what it says. Gal, darn it all was a really good follow up question too. I cannot decipher what that is, man, if I remember it, I'll text it to you because I'm curious, what separates good from Great?

Jake Herbert

Yeah, I think it comes down to desire, right? And your habits. I mean habits and time. Good people got good where they are because of a certain amount of time, but that difference between good and great is continuing on that path. So there's this awesome thing that is like, if you think of a hockey stick laying on its side, and I love this, this graph, and I use this for anything of success, and it's different. It's called the graph of the dilemma of time and success. And basically, the x axis, this tall one is time, and this one right here is success, or, sorry, this tall one is success, and this x1 is time. And essentially, as you get started, like, you feel like it's nothing, right, like it takes you. I remember my boss time this he's like, he took me my first 12 years and made my first million, and then I made my second million in four years, and I made my third million in two years, and now I'm bringing in like, a million a month, right? So just exponential. It took me 19 years to win my first real like FILA Junior National Championship, and then I won nine from 19 to 31 so it's just that's the biggest difference between good and great is great people can stick with those habits and get through the boredom longer than the good people will, because the good people will eventually quit or give up or stop or change something, whereas you got to stay on this hockey path. And it's what happens is, is most people go across this graph and they go, This isn't working. Let me go back and then you have to start over again. Well, this isn't working. Let me go back and have to start over again. This isn't working. Let me go back and start a review. Just continue along, through that resiliency, through that suck, you can start to get that other side of that hockey stick, where it becomes exponential to you

Shane Sparks

personally, Jake, what was the biggest threat to your excellence, and how did you combat that?

Jake Herbert

It was celebrating that was the that was the biggest threat, right? Because I like social I like going out. I like having fun. Who doesn't like the pony, right? We've all been there, you know? We've all had, had those nights that, hey, we've gone a little too far and go over the edge. And as driven wrestlers, that's not uncommon, right? Like, I know it scared the city of Detroit when they had all these wrestlers here in the town. They're like, these guys are going crazy, and our bar staff doesn't know what to do if a fight breaks out, like, what are you gonna do? Like, so that was the biggest thing, was knowing that I had these these periods of time to work, to get to a goal, to celebrate a little bit afterwards, and then to get back to it, I was really glad, because I always had wrestling to keep me back in line, you know, like, hey, when we're in training camp, we're serious. We're three to four months out. I'm not going out, I'm not drinking, I'm not chasing things, I'm not I'm doing the right things during those training camps. Now, when it's not training camp, you know, I'm going out for two weeks after I won my world silver medal. Dustin Slater, CP, Slater and couple other friends that we went out for two weeks in Europe, and we were like, gives us great you know, Dustin says you have great hair, by the way. I just talked to him earlier today about something, and he's and we get to go on celebrate. And then I remember coming back like, all right, I'm second in the world, right? I lost in overtime. I won a Hodge Trophy. I'm the Big Ten Athlete of the Year. I come back in the wrestling room, and I have a three way go my first practice back with Donny Pritzlaff and Andrew Howe. I didn't score a point. I just ate a big thing of humble pie. And I'm like, wow, I forgot, like, I was the best in the world, and Donnie and Andrew just put it on me that day, man. And it's just, it's just so good to have that humbling experience. And I'm like, what happened? I'm like, Oh yeah, I haven't done anything for three weeks, right? And these guys have been sitting at here and hammering and going at it, you know, and wanting it too. They, you know, they wanted to make that team. Andrew Howe, you want to talk about, like, probably one of the greatest wrestlers out there, to never make a team, right? Like that guy. I lost the Burroughs in both Olympic trials, 12 and 16. Like, how many times, like, he was right there in between that, if it wasn't for that guy like Jordan Burroughs, how many times a world medalist Is he right? How many times a world champion is he like, it's, it's just nuts how good these guys are out there. And just it just so it makes it so hard, and you just, you got to be so blessed to have the opportunity and to do what I did. I'm just so grateful and blessed about it. If you could

Shane Sparks

have one match to do over again? Which one would you pick

Jake Herbert

immediately in college, I go to Askren, Askren finals, because that's the one that I would, I mean, it's the only one I'd really want to go over again. I mean, I was happy with high finished air as an there, and then I'd say my Olympic matches, right? Either one give me my bronze medal match back, or put me out against Sharif, from entrepreneur, who I was to know against over that cycle. And just knowing what I know now, like, Hey, I can't let any subjectivity get in there. I have to go behind them. I have to then. I have to be smarter. I'd want to wrestle those matches again. Those are the ones that you lost. Those are the ones that, yeah, you want to you want to go, you want to get back. Now. Fun ones that I won. I'd want to go back and wrestle. I love wrestling Kennedy and yeah, Phil Kelly in the finals of Midlands, because I was number two ranked at that time. I just came back, they still had the solo number one, and Kenny was number two, and then I smashed him like 15 to one, and then after I they moved me up to number one. But my favorite after that match is I'd always go back and do these overtime workouts. So I go back in the hallway after a match, and Kenny's back there with Brands. Brands, look at Kenny and says, go. So we're both sprinting back and forth, sprinting back and forth, sprinting back. We're doing air sprints and then finding what Kenny was done. I went and I did another one, dropped down and did some push up, because I'm not gonna let a guy that I just beat like outwork me and see like he's gonna get it back and brand just walked by in that time. Just was like, I love that man. That was a great

Shane Sparks

thing when you look at the Olympics, what you know? What are a couple things you'll always remember just from those experiences.

Jake Herbert

The best thing that happened is I had 69 people come across the pond to support me. And I'll never forget, like the day or two before Wayne's, when everybody is over there, of the whole group of Jake Herbert fans and support clubs from all walks of life, and you're just getting hug after hug after hug after hug after hug from cousins, from, you know, uncles, from wrestling supporters, from people in my youth club, from people that are like, in college, they're like, Hey, if you make it, I'm gonna be there, right? Like, if you get it, I'll be there just like seeing this group of 70 people that came over there and I was their reason, it still tears me up, and gets me to this day,

Shane Sparks

winning your first NCAA title. You're on top the podium. What were you thinking then we're

Jake Herbert

just thinking how grateful that was, right? Like, how pumped I am to get this done. This was a big thing to get off my back to complete that season the way it was. And ironically, it was only 20 minutes up the street from here, like I'm here in Birmingham, Michigan, and that was in Auburn Hills at the palace. So that was just so great. And I just knew how big that was gonna be for the program. And we had a great year. That year. I think that was the year we took fourth aSATeam. Yeah, team finished. So it was just great to be able to know that, hey, Northwestern University is a university iSATop four wrestling program, that you can do it all here. And I just remember being excited then for the freestyle season.

Shane Sparks

Where's your Hodge

Jake Herbert

at Northwestern University, coach storno still has it in the office. Can use it for recruiting. Hopefully it won't be the last one from there, but unfortunately, it can't fit underneath there yet, and I don't know where we'll put it. So maybe when we get in the other house, I'll probably get get that one.

Shane Sparks

Yeah, to have the level of success that you have had, Jake, it takes an army so many people I know have helped you put you on the spot. Yeah, who is the best teammate you ever had?

Jake Herbert

My parents, right, like they're, I mean, from the beginning, right? My mom and dad did everything to support me, and then it was always whoever my coaches were. At that time, I had great teammates at different faiths. I've just wrestled for so long, right? In high school was the angry fish teammates. In college, it was my Northwestern University team. Then post college, it was the cliff King wrestling club, the overtime wrestling club, Cliff Keen wrestling club, and Team USA. So there's, yeah, I can't have one because there's just so many. But it just, it just went through that so well. And I look at, like my my big coaches from like, my youth program, my high school coach, Jamie, carry asses and taking time more my or sorry, TIG, more time more. And Ray Brinzer as my youth coach, with rich Catalano in there, helping me along to get into college with Tim Cysewski. And then drew pelliano coming in and bringing Bill shear and Sean Bormet to there to then transferring to Sean Bormet And Andy Hrovat like that was like my my coaching lineage that that goes through and. See, a lot of them are still out there doing it all, which is great.

Shane Sparks

You get a fall. You get the slap of the resolute. Give me your most memorable pin.

Jake Herbert

Ah, it was fun to beat Doug umberhauer at the Midlands semis. I mean, because he was so big. And, I mean, his name was umberhauer, right? And his back was like this big, and he had it in huge block letters. So his back had to be that big to fit his tattoo across his back. And I just had a 17 second fall against him, something like really fast and really easy, which is good. And there's another one against a division two national champion called Michael Jackson. No joke, that was his name. And I remember picking him up in a double putting him on his back. I pinned him in like 30 seconds, but he bridged so hard. We're like, oh, I fell back and came back on. I'm like, Dude, if I let this guy off his back, it's gonna suck. I'm gonna keep him down here and pin him really fast off the back. Man. Those are probably two of my, yeah, 100% my most, my most memorable ones were those ones. Mark Perry, too, the Big Tenth finals that was, that was a big one, right, to get the pin, to come out in that weird scramble to get on top and to win my first Big Ten title with a fall over a Hawkeye. Those are the three that come to mind when you say that. Were you a big college

Shane Sparks

wrestling fan growing up?

Jake Herbert

Yes, I liked it a lot, but it was harder to watch back then, right? We had Pitt University. I was always going down to the Pitt University wrestling room. I remember watching TIG more from my high school win his national title, and remember watching him throughout high school because he was a great high school wrestler. Him and Jeremy hunter would have these battles, and just like this year when you had Forrester, and is it Sedol from Virginia Tech forest and Seidel, yep. Seidel, right. Yeah. Like, that's like, I remember watching Jeremy Hunter and take more wrestle in high school matches, and like not to know that this was going to be a national semifinal or a national championship match just a couple years later, and to watch, you know, TIG and cheer for him for college and have that like next level look was so great.

Shane Sparks

You have any posters of athletes on your walls growing up?

Jake Herbert

No, we did not. But in our wrestling room, we had all the high school state champions, right, the guys from Arthur. And we had a great team. My high school had, it was national champs. We had Ty Moore, Roy brinzer, rich, Catalano, TIG Moore. We've had Jake Woodley, who went on to be an All-American myself from this we actually have two, Olympic alternates and two NCAA champions, just for my high school, which is great, not to mention how many All-Americans and guys that I'm leaving out going back to this lineage from that gusty Agostino did. So that was always really important to see these guys picture, because I'm always in the room you see every year they place, and when they had the states, and you got your plaque and that up there. So that was super big and super visual for me. And then I remember, then I got to, like, college, the picture of German throwing Chris Taylor. And I remember learning that, like, Chris Taylor was the American like, what? I remember being, like, super surprised, like, I just thought that was an awesome picture of this one. And then I love the one of Crellin doing the lifting as you get older and international. And then again, like the high school, ASIC High School posters were always up. Those were the best. I know. I love those ones right from 2001 2002 2003 2004 seeing that, I actually got really pumped for my son for this. But we got, he was really pumped for this. We got these T shirts made right for, like, the kids club. And he was like, looking at it yesterday, and I just know it's just the same thing as, like, the visual of being able to see your name and your your picture up there, and just knowing that, like, you work to achieve it, right? I'm like, Hey, Mike, yeah, you could have, after your first match, could have lost, but now you know your name is here on the back there. It is forever. Man says, a state qualifier. So it's just great to see those little things.

Shane Sparks

If there was a Jake Herbert poster, yeah, what move Are you hitting on? Who like when you think about something that you know, you posterizing somebody else? What? What comes to

Jake Herbert

mind, looking for that my wife. What was that poster? What am I doing? Right? What was that? How's it going? He has the legs behind his head, just like that. Pop it up the middle. Single Leg. Pop up the middle. Oh, it's right, where it's at. Yeah, that's exactly what it'd be. It'd be that one, and that's, that's one of the favorite one is the pop up at the middle post. Yeah, that's, that's got to be the one. I also, you know, there's so many cool opportunities and things out there. There's some really good ones. I hope I have the moment while it's happening too. For sure,

Shane Sparks

for sure. Where did you meet your wife?

Jake Herbert

So my best friend from high school, I met my wife at my best friend from high school, who I grew up wrestling with, playing football with at his wedding. So my what my brother in law, I've wrestled with growing up, his actually, Dad was one of my youth coaches, so he's now my brother in law. So that's where we met, at the at the wedding there and fell in love. And her mom, you know, asked me to come over after, like, the wedding, for a thing. And I never left. That's a joke. So I. And I'm tough to throw out of places. How many kids you guys have?

Shane Sparks

We got four, four kids. How old are they? What do you have?

Jake Herbert

So, two boys, two girls. So my daughter 10, Lee is 12/7, grade. Just finished her first year in middle school wrestling, which is great. My son Michael, seven and a half. My son Hallie, six and a half. And then my last son, Jack is three.

Shane Sparks

So what are you doing professionally? Jake,

Jake Herbert

that's I'm still working on, that's still trying to figure out I have my real estate license, so I help people. But that's one thing. We have some rental properties, so I dive into that. But what I really enjoy doing most of my time is I coach, you know, high achievers, right? Like, like, high level professionals. Typically, a lot of them are ex wrestlers, where they just need a thinking partner. They need guidance. They need accountability. I'm a really big fan of coaching, and I believe that, like, if you look at the Olympians, the one thing they all have in common they're at different levels, different countries, different gender, different things, everything else. The one thing they all have in common is they all is they all have a coach. So it's like that was the biggest thing that I got, because you need it for seasons, for time periods, of somebody that could be on your side, that has done it, that can just help you think through different things, look at things perspective, or just say, Hey, listen, I'm Shane. I'm messing up in this area. I need accountability in this we're going to connect once a week for the next nine weeks, so you can make sure that I'm getting up off my butt, I'm hitting my workouts, or I'm making that time for my family, or I'm making sure I'm home and I'm putting the phone away. I'm being present with my wife, and I'm doing this with my kids. Like there's just so much life that gets so busy, you don't know what to do, because all of it seems important. So when you have another sounding board, another person to sit there and go through and help them. That's that's what I love doing. I have, like, 90 day programs. I got about eight clients right now that I work with, and I love going through with that. And sometimes we just do it for a cycle. And some of these guys have been hap then been helping for two to three years, just to go through life, to get to peak performance, to cut through that bull crap, and get them from where they are to where they

Shane Sparks

want to be. From a coaching standpoint, Jake, what is something that you are in pursuit of? I mean, what is something that fascinates you that you can't figure out and you would just love to have the key to figuring something out?

Jake Herbert

Yeah, it's the intrinsic motivation. How do you get somebody to want to be intrinsically motivated. You don't have to call me some brain can tell him, Hey, get up at time for practice, get in the room. That guy wants to win. He competes where How did his dad put that intrinsic motivation into him? How did Bo Nichols dad put that intrinsic motivation into him? How did Mike Amin put that into miles a mean of just this, I want to go out and be the best that I can and just have that motivation. Could do the work to get up and get it that's the one thing. If I could bottom up and put in the pill and get kids to start to believe that, and that's what I'm kind of under. I'm kind of discovering how to put that in. I have kids that, when they show up around you enough, they're gonna succeed, right? Like, if you I have a Kids program that I run for every Monday for physical literacy. It's not a wrestling class. It's to get the kids active. If you bring them enough, your kids are going to walk away, walking on their hands, doing headstands, handstands, bridge kids, bridge strips, climbing a rope. Because you show up every week, they're going to get better at it. And especially as kids, we show along aSAThree year old, by the time they're six, it's nuts. You know, my my seven year old son can hold a handstand against the wall for four plus minutes, and Shane, it scares me, because I'm like, That's so good. He's mentally tough to push through that pain and to go through that that's gonna be hard when he'SATeenager, when that's coming at me, but he's gonna be good for him in life. He's gonna be resilient. He's tough. He's gonna be making through if he can apply that in the right things the right direction. So I'd say that said, how do you install this intrinsic motivation for these kids? And what's really cool is, I was talking to a really cool client of mine, Shea Butler, was telling me about this, that when the kids become like, 12 or 13 or 14, they start to seek counsel or wisdom, like, outside of their tribe, and a lot of it is to do with like so hey, I'm not inbreeding or doing all that stuff, but that's where you need this, like coach to come in for this 13 year old or 14 year old, because they're not gonna listen to you. That's where my coaches came in with me, because I'm not listening to dad anymore. I've listened to my coach that I respect, or do something else. You need somebody like that your kid's corner that's gonna have the best intentions for them. That might not be your intentions, but they have great intentions. Great intentions, and they want them to succeed, and they're going to lead by a good example and just have those conversations with those kids. What's the

Shane Sparks

biggest mistake coaches make,

Jake Herbert

wanting it more for their kids or their wrestler than the wrestler wants it for themselves, and that's hard. I want all my clients to be super successful, to have a six pack, to have big arms, to make six figures, to do all those things. But if I want it more for them than they want it for themselves, it's not fair to them, and it's not fair to me. It's not fair the relationship. So checking that,

Shane Sparks

let's end this Jake with some rapid fire. Biggest pet peeve I.

Jake Herbert

Wet socks, right? Like, just having socks on and stepping in a puddle, yeah? Like, yeah. Like, I yell my kids all the time. I'm like, outside and it's what I put on them. I'm like, either shoes off or shoes on or socks off. Like, even though it doesn't bother them, bothers me so much.

Shane Sparks

If you could switch places with one person for a day. Who do you want to be for one day?

Jake Herbert

Oh, that's a really good one. I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of people that I'd love. I'd love, like Shaquille O'Neal and just his business acclimate of what he's done and what he's built, and how he's learning base Cael Sanderson would be another one. I'd love to get his brain into his mind and know that my wife, that's another one I'd love to do. Just see what's inside of her head and how she operates and how she does it. Those are three people

Shane Sparks

off my head. What's the first job you ever had? Subway?

Jake Herbert

I was a sandwich artist. NO WAY you worked at Subway for one, because I always worked for my dad and his construction company, and I was always just clean, hey, here's 500 sheets of plywood. Go move those in the house, and I'll be back in like, three hours. Here's a shovel. Love, off those basements. That was the first job working construction, doing, you know, grunt work. And then I got in a big fight with my senior year, and he's like, You still gotta work. It's like, I'm gonna

Shane Sparks

go work at Subway. This is easy. What? What sub are you best at making what was the

Jake Herbert

I'm a sandwich machine. Anyone, anyone? Shane, I am unbelievable making sandwiches and food I'm always making like that perfect bite. That's what I'm

Shane Sparks

always in search for. What's your favorite movie all time?

Jake Herbert

I've been loving the Avatar series all time. I'd say like avatars, but I love vision quest and

Shane Sparks

that stuff. Favorite music group,

Jake Herbert

Josh Herbert, my cousin. He's got the best, best album out there. He's an artist for a while, and that's because I know him and I love him, but I don't really listen to that much music. I like podcasts. I'm gonna love this podcast. I can't wait to see like you asked such great question, Shane dive, in the minds of some of the great wrestlers like this, man, I'm really glad that you're starting to do this. Yeah, that's really big,

Shane Sparks

best concert you've ever been to, the Josh

Jake Herbert

Herbert concert. I got, I got, I was really pumped. Man, that's a wrestling world. Like there's a guy from Penn, state, Marty schraer, whose dad was a couple time All-American, and Marty married a Dixie chick, and I met him at a party, and Marty knew more about me than I knew about myself. I was like, it's kind of like, weird how much he knows about me. And I was like, what do you do? He's like, Oh, I'm in a band. And like, oh, okay, great. Like, I just thought he's like, in a little band by his garage. He's like, Yeah, I married him on one of the Dixie Chicks. I'm like, Oh, you're legit. Like, you know, I showed him my cousin, and then my cousin him formed a relationship, and my cousin went and opened up for the Dixie chick concerts, man, for when they were on tour. So I love that one, because I like being able to walk backstage to see the VIP, like, you'll see it. Like, Shane, I'm at like, the Big Ten championships. I don't have a credential and everything and all those things, but, like, I walk my way like, I walk my way down to the floor, and everyone's just like, Ah, he should be down there, you know. And then you have, like, the security people that are like, well, like, should you be but then everybody keeps stopping and talking, like, How does everybody know you? I was like, This is my family. I was like, most guys are in my wedding and like, you're not, like, I'm not down here causing trouble. Like, I'm polite, I'm curious, I'm not running on the mat. Like, I'm sorry I don't have your badge right now, but like, I'm sure somebody will give

Shane Sparks

me one. Do you, Jake, have a favorite quote? Yeah, I do.

Jake Herbert

The more I learn, the more I learn. There's so much more to learn. Is one of my favorite ones, that I hate losing more than you love winning, but I love the champions creed, right? I already, already said that one of normal people practice until they get it right. Champions practice until they can't get it wrong. I have literally a whole quote book, so like, there's, like, I literally collect quotes, so there's so many of them that I love. Don't quit, can't fail, don't quit, can't fail. Don't quit, can't fail. I'm not judging the number of times I fail. I'm judged the number of times exceeding. The number of times exceed is directly related numbers I fail and keep on going. And there's just so many out there, right? The more the dude, feedback is fuel or like, feedback is fuel and fuel is like, fuel goes towards our fire, right? I love that, like that, learning that we and this is probably my favorite one right now. It's my signature. It's we do the best we can until we know better, and once we know better, we do better. And you can see a lot of them are just like these self improvement quotes.

Shane Sparks

Give me what is tops on your bucket list.

Jake Herbert

I want to get out to, back to the Olympics in 2028 I'd love to get out there to see it. That's a really big thing for me to get back to the Olympic games and watch it over there. I want to, I want to help, like, coach. I want to be part of somebody's World Championship, right, or Olympic champion. I know I already was right. Like you talked to like I helped Burroughs a little bit. I helped. Varner a little bit like we're on the team together. We help. But I want to be like somebody that had like that direct, you know, like bigger impact on those people like that. So that's that's a big thing on the bucket list, is to do that. And would honestly love to be able to be a USA wrestling team leader. I'd love to be one of the first people who was on the Olympic team and then came back aSATeam leader. I don't think that's happened yet, but I think that'd be something really cool, but I got to get some more funds.

Shane Sparks

Final question for you, you are taking a cross country trip driving. You get to choose three other people that are living that you've never met. Who are you choosing?

Jake Herbert

That's a really, really good one. I'm gonna choose. I'd love Joe Rogan 100% in there, because he'd probably be on at some point regardless, and haven't got to meet him yet. I would also love to have who haven't I met yet, that I'd love to have on, oh, I'd really, I met Trump. Highly. I love that guy, man. But I'd love to like, have, have him in there. I mean, not to like work with him. I met him. So I'd say, definitely, Joe Rogan Bert Chrysler. I think he's hysterical, man, one of those comedians, the machine that's in there. And then I'd have to go with, I'd want to say I'd probably want somebody, like, super smart that's like neuroscience, or something like brainy or nerdy. So let's say like, I don't want to say like Bill Gates, but I want to say, Oh, the guy that's doing, like, the behind the deep thinking, like the AI Artificial Intelligence. I'm watching a documentary on him right now. He's some chess champion, but I want to put him on there too, and that way I just love to be in that conversation of like, Bert Chrysler, who's just like, going to make these crazy jokes, this super smart deep learning AI, like, science nerd, and then Joe Rogan to kind of like, mesh us all together.

Shane Sparks

Jake, this has been a blast, lot of fun to get, get some of your perspective. Glad you're doing well and really enjoyed this. Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

Jake Herbert

Thank you, Shane. I appreciate you. Keep it going. Keep it growing, man, and I can't wait. I'll see I'll see you at one of these events here. Soon. You